Today at my home in Sheffield I had proselytizing Muslims knocking at my door and handing me a leaflet promoting Islam.

They were from the local Ahmadiyya mosque, and trying to promote their version of Islam as enlightened and defend Islam generally against a "barrage of bad press".

I had a brief one-minute conversation before they handed me the leaflet, with the motto "Love for All Hatred fore None".

www.loveforallhatredfornone.org

On the one hand it's good to see some Muslims promoting a more enlightened version, but then on the other hand the last thing I want is another religion knocking on my door on a Sunday morning, there's enough of them already.

Friend quisquose

Did you tear them a new one?

Judging by their website, they seem to be going out of their way to show deference to various icons of British nationalism - The Olympics (albeit a temporary icon), the Queen, the British Army. I'm not worried about their religion, but the idea that God in any guise supports such causes deeply concerns me. Next time they call on you, get them to give you His current address, and I will go round one Sunday morning and have a word with Him.

Bribase wrote:Friend quisquose

Did you tear them a new one?

My defence tactics are totally geared towards JWs and Mormons, who knock on my door about half a dozen times a year. I have never had a proselytizing Muslim knock on my door before, or even heard of one, so I was taken a bit by surprise. They were very polite, and so was I.

I've been called a militant atheist for merely engaging in discussion on Internet forums though, so what does that make these young men?

they're all at it time we joined the party

Be friendly with them - mainstream Muslims are seriously nasty towadrs them.

Wasn't paarsurrey one of those Ahmadis?

Clive Durdle wrote:Be friendly with them - mainstream Muslims are seriously nasty towadrs them.

Really? Got any sources for that?

Quick check here ...

In several Islamic countries today Ahmadis have been marginalised by the majority religious community; severe persecution and often systematic oppression have led many Ahmadis to emigrate and settle elsewhere.

From here:

Founded by a charismatic leader, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, in late-19th century India, the Ahmadis are a small but economically and educationally significant diasporic Muslim minority, established today in numerous cities in the West, Asia and Africa. In many Islamic countries the Ahmadis have been defined as heretics and non-Muslim and subjected to persecution. The Ahmadis have developed a reputation as political ‘quietists’ who are linguistically, and within limits, culturally assimilationist. They provide a unique and, in the present global climate, an invaluable perspective on the relationship of Islam and the West. Marginalised by the majority Muslim community, the Ahmadis are active translators of the Koran and proselytizers for the faith. Converts to Islam in many parts of the world first discover Islam through the Ahmadis.

They're unique in that they regard the word jihad as being properly focused upon struggle against the self, with the aim of ridding oneself of base thoughts and desires, and regard the proper means of promoting Islamic belief as being via the pen, not the sword. Actual physical conflict in Ahmadi circles is justified only in self-defence against aggressive attack by others.

With respect to oppression, Pakistan has enacted discriminatory laws against Ahmadis, with strict penalties for violations of those discriminatory laws. The vindictiveness toward Ahmadis, who are declared to be heretics, even extended toward the tombstone of the Nobel Physics Laureate Abdus Salam, because he was an Ahmadi. An example of the violent repression Ahmadis can face is the 2010 attacks on Ahmadi mosques in Lahore, which resulted in 86 deaths.

In the case of Indonesia, the Wikipedia article states the following:

As of 2011, the sect faces widespread calls for a total "ban" in Indonesia.[91] On 6 February 2011, hundreds of mainstream Muslims surrounded an Ahmadiyya household and beat three people to death. Footage of the bludgeoning of their naked bodies – while policeman looked on – was posted on the internet and subsequently broadcast on international media.

More details on persecution of Ahmadis can be found here. For example, here in the UK:

United Kingdom

In 2009 a demonstration consisting of mainly Muslims was held in Walsall to prevent Ahmadis acquiring a mosque.[68]
In 2010, in the wake of the May 2010 attacks on two Ahmadi mosques in Lahore, Pakistan, members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community living in the UK were threatened and intimidated. Certain Muslim groups in South London distributed leaflets asking readers to kill Ahmadis and boycott their businesses, and Ahmadi mosques in Crawley and Newham were vandalised. In October 2010 Ofcom criticised the UK-based Ummah Channel for broadcasting three interactive television programmes before and after the Lahore massacre of Ahmadi Muslims in May 2010, in which religious leaders and callers alike said that Ahmadis should be killed. These programmes were repeated several times. Ofcom stated that the programme's abusive treatment of the religious views and beliefs of members of the Ahmadiyya community breached UK broadcasting regulations.[69][70]
Nasser Butt, a Liberal Democrats parliamentary candidate for the 2010 general election was targeted by campaign, asking Muslims not to vote for him in order to prevent him being elected because of his faith. In the upcoming election hustings in the Tooting Islamic centre, a Conservative candidate Mark Clarke was mistaken to be Butt and so had to be locked in a room for his safety.

The Ahmadis are regarded in some parts of the Islamic community as being only marginally less deserving of hate than Jews.

They are the Jehova's Witnesses of Islam.

They currently do a lot of advertisement in Europe to present themselves as liberal and moderate. But be not deceived. The misogyny matches that of the most extreme Wahhabis.

NineBerry wrote:They are the Jehova's Witnesses of Islam.

They currently do a lot of advertisement in Europe to present themselves as liberal and moderate. But be not deceived. The misogyny matches that of the most extreme Wahhabis.

Not forgetting their opinion of freedom of speech, as evidenced at UCL.

Calilasseia wrote:Quick check here ...

In several Islamic countries today Ahmadis have been marginalised by the majority religious community; severe persecution and often systematic oppression have led many Ahmadis to emigrate and settle elsewhere.

From here:

Founded by a charismatic leader, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, in late-19th century India, the Ahmadis are a small but economically and educationally significant diasporic Muslim minority, established today in numerous cities in the West, Asia and Africa. In many Islamic countries the Ahmadis have been defined as heretics and non-Muslim and subjected to persecution. The Ahmadis have developed a reputation as political ‘quietists’ who are linguistically, and within limits, culturally assimilationist. They provide a unique and, in the present global climate, an invaluable perspective on the relationship of Islam and the West. Marginalised by the majority Muslim community, the Ahmadis are active translators of the Koran and proselytizers for the faith. Converts to Islam in many parts of the world first discover Islam through the Ahmadis.

They're unique in that they regard the word jihad as being properly focused upon struggle against the self, with the aim of ridding oneself of base thoughts and desires, and regard the proper means of promoting Islamic belief as being via the pen, not the sword. Actual physical conflict in Ahmadi circles is justified only in self-defence against aggressive attack by others.

With respect to oppression, Pakistan has enacted discriminatory laws against Ahmadis, with strict penalties for violations of those discriminatory laws. The vindictiveness toward Ahmadis, who are declared to be heretics, even extended toward the tombstone of the Nobel Physics Laureate Abdus Salam, because he was an Ahmadi. An example of the violent repression Ahmadis can face is the 2010 attacks on Ahmadi mosques in Lahore, which resulted in 86 deaths.

In the case of Indonesia, the Wikipedia article states the following:

As of 2011, the sect faces widespread calls for a total "ban" in Indonesia.[91] On 6 February 2011, hundreds of mainstream Muslims surrounded an Ahmadiyya household and beat three people to death. Footage of the bludgeoning of their naked bodies – while policeman looked on – was posted on the internet and subsequently broadcast on international media.

More details on persecution of Ahmadis can be found here. For example, here in the UK:

United Kingdom

In 2009 a demonstration consisting of mainly Muslims was held in Walsall to prevent Ahmadis acquiring a mosque.[68]
In 2010, in the wake of the May 2010 attacks on two Ahmadi mosques in Lahore, Pakistan, members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community living in the UK were threatened and intimidated. Certain Muslim groups in South London distributed leaflets asking readers to kill Ahmadis and boycott their businesses, and Ahmadi mosques in Crawley and Newham were vandalised. In October 2010 Ofcom criticised the UK-based Ummah Channel for broadcasting three interactive television programmes before and after the Lahore massacre of Ahmadi Muslims in May 2010, in which religious leaders and callers alike said that Ahmadis should be killed. These programmes were repeated several times. Ofcom stated that the programme's abusive treatment of the religious views and beliefs of members of the Ahmadiyya community breached UK broadcasting regulations.[69][70]
Nasser Butt, a Liberal Democrats parliamentary candidate for the 2010 general election was targeted by campaign, asking Muslims not to vote for him in order to prevent him being elected because of his faith. In the upcoming election hustings in the Tooting Islamic centre, a Conservative candidate Mark Clarke was mistaken to be Butt and so had to be locked in a room for his safety.

The Ahmadis are regarded in some parts of the Islamic community as being only marginally less deserving of hate than Jews.

Interesting, but I'm not convinced there are grounds for us to favour one section of the muslim community over "mainstream" muslims, whatever they are. That seems like taking sides in a sectarian division, on the basis that the enemy of your enemy is your friend. I'm not into all that mumbo-jumbo, personally.

You asked if there were sources supporting claims of discrimination against Ahmadis, I provided them. Did I say I regarded their ideas about a magic man as being any more valid than other supernaturalists? Er, no.

In fact, we've had one of their number on here for some time, until his repeated instances of discoursive malfeasance became too much. Won't take you long to find his trainwreck threads.

Calilasseia wrote:You asked if there were sources supporting claims of discrimination against Ahmadis, I provided them. Did I say I regarded their ideas about a magic man as being any more valid than other supernaturalists? Er, no.

In fact, we've had one of their number on here for some time, until his repeated instances of discoursive malfeasance became too much. Won't take you long to find his trainwreck threads.

I was responding to both you and Clive Durdle.

Calilasseia wrote:In fact, we've had one of their number on here for some time, until his repeated instances of discoursive malfeasance became too much. Won't take you long to find his trainwreck threads.

... and he at times appeared to be a very numerous person ...

Although Amahdis have been openly attacked in London by other Muslims, we must not forget that they are the ones who instigated the fuss there at University College, trying to get the Jesus & Mo cartoon censored.

biscuit wrote:they're all at it time we joined the party

That'll go down well; "Hi, we're spreading the good news about nobody at all"

BlackBart wrote:

biscuit wrote:they're all at it time we joined the party

That'll go down well; "Hi, we're spreading the good news about nobody at all"

Could make a good comedy sketch though ...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U58wgn-9Y3c[/youtube]

Just what is "mainstream islam"?

Muslim has the same function as the word xtian. It is a catch all. Islam is split into many fractions just as is xtianity.

The big numbers game once again.

It's already happening. In many major cities in Germany, there are public information booths by atheist organization that try to convert people

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfSmh_-9bD0[/youtube]