purplerat wrote: People who've just moments before had their fingers up their ass are washing in that sink and nobody cares so what's the concern over feet?

Well, so far as hospital wards and sinks are concerned, anyone doing a penile vaginal or rectal examination would have been wearing gloves and thrown them in the clinical waste afterwards. There's also the question of necessity - hygiene. So some people wander into a hospital ward or school washroom. Their hands might be dirty, so they need to wash them. Their feet maybe - well, at most a bit sweaty, if they're picky about keeping them clean. But their feet are still in their shoes and socks. They can stay in their shoes and socks and no harm will come to them or anyone else. The only reason they are taking off their shoes and socks and inconveniencing (and in the hospital context possibly infecting vulnerable) people is because somebody convinced them that an imaginary emissary of an imaginary god told a (possibly imaginary) hallucinating Arab that they needed to wash their feet before they kowtow before said imaginary god. Big bloody deal.
Oh, and by the way. That hospital I mentioned: they now have a room for Muslim men (and I imagine another for Muslim women) to wash their apparently god-offending feet. When I used to work there, that room was for the grieving relatives of seriously ill patients. Which is the better use? Still, I suppose it stops them doing it on the wards.

reisender wrote:I work at an international ESL college for college age students, and I've heard of this happening but I saw it for the first time today. A student took his shoes off, reached his leg over the counter and rinsed his feet one by one in the sink and put his shoes back on.

I just half-looked at the situation with as little disgust on my face as I could muster and he said "don't pay attention to me, it's a ritual" I said "I know" and went about my business. After leaving the washroom, I said "surely washing your feet in the sink is a sanitary issue" to which she shrugged and said "it all goes down the drain I guess" I'd heard of the students washing their feet after lunch or something, but I thought maybe they used a basin or something. Needless to say water is left all over the sink and on the floor.

Can anyone tell me what religion dictates this, if there is a legitimate sanitary issue?
Judging by the teacher's reaction (who is my supervisor but not manager) they know about this.
I'm sure they bend over backwards to accomodate students to get their attendance and money, or just look the other way.
Am I overreacting thinking that some attention should be brought to this matter?

Yes, you're overreacting.

If that's the worst thing that goes on in your bathrooms, then you've got it good.

Oeditor wrote:Well, so far as hospital wards and sinks are concerned, anyone doing a penile vaginal or rectal examination would have been wearing gloves and thrown them in the clinical waste afterwards. There's also the question of necessity - hygiene. So some people wander into a hospital ward or school washroom. Their hands might be dirty, so they need to wash them. Their feet maybe - well, at most a bit sweaty, if they're picky about keeping them clean. But their feet are still in their shoes and socks. They can stay in their shoes and socks and no harm will come to them or anyone else. The only reason they are taking off their shoes and socks and inconveniencing (and in the hospital context possibly infecting vulnerable) people is because somebody convinced them that an imaginary emissary of an imaginary god told a (possibly imaginary) hallucinating Arab that they needed to wash their feet before they kowtow before said imaginary god. Big bloody deal.
Oh, and by the way. That hospital I mentioned: they now have a room for Muslim men (and I imagine another for Muslim women) to wash their apparently god-offending feet. When I used to work there, that room was for the grieving relatives of seriously ill patients. Which is the better use? Still, I suppose it stops them doing it on the wards.

The OP did not mention hospitals.
Agreed, the only reason for washing of feet as described is because of a religious ritual which everyone here seems to agree is not reality based.
But your objection seems to be founded on the religious aspect. The hygiene concerns are not reality based.
If, as you seem to think, the feet are cleaner than the hands, you should be objecting to people washing their hands.
How is someone washing his/her feet an inconvenience to anyone else? Is it more of an inconvenience than someone washing hands? Using the mirror to do a bit of personal grooming?

Regarding the room for ablutions which was once a room for relatives: is it the case that there is now no room for relatives?

Kuia wrote:
The OP did not mention hospitals.

True, but I thought my broadening of the topic had been accepted.

Agreed, the only reason for washing of feet as described is because of a religious ritual which everyone here seems to agree is not reality based.
But your objection seems to be founded on the religious aspect.

No, on the grounds of total lack of necessity for foot washing in that place and time.

The hygiene concerns are not reality based. If, as you seem to think, the feet are cleaner than the hands, you should be objecting to people washing their hands.

Not at all. Hands are waved about and go everywhere. Feet are enclosed and neither acquire nor spread infections whilst so constrained. One could argue, I suppose, that the whole bang shoot came about because Arabs in vestigial sandals (if any footwear at all) were accustomed to paddling about in goat and camel dung, before wellies were invented.

How is someone washing his/her feet an inconvenience to anyone else? Is it more of an inconvenience than someone washing hands? Using the mirror to do a bit of personal grooming?

In the hospital context, certainly. Wards are crowded enough and have limited enough facilities without several relatives of each patient suddenly creating mayhem by whipping off their shoes and dipping their feet in the sink. I wasn't there at the time, so I don't know what they did for towels, btw.

Regarding the room for ablutions which was once a room for relatives: is it the case that there is now no room for relatives?

I don't know. It's no longer next to the Intensive Care ward, for sure. Maybe somebody else has been displaced, maybe public money has been spent on an extension somewhere in the hospital. All over a delusion.

Oeditor wrote:

purplerat wrote: People who've just moments before had their fingers up their ass are washing in that sink and nobody cares so what's the concern over feet?

Well, so far as hospital wards and sinks are concerned, anyone doing a penile vaginal or rectal examination would have been wearing gloves and thrown them in the clinical waste afterwards. There's also the question of necessity - hygiene. So some people wander into a hospital ward or school washroom. Their hands might be dirty, so they need to wash them. Their feet maybe - well, at most a bit sweaty, if they're picky about keeping them clean. But their feet are still in their shoes and socks. They can stay in their shoes and socks and no harm will come to them or anyone else. The only reason they are taking off their shoes and socks and inconveniencing (and in the hospital context possibly infecting vulnerable) people is because somebody convinced them that an imaginary emissary of an imaginary god told a (possibly imaginary) hallucinating Arab that they needed to wash their feet before they kowtow before said imaginary god. Big bloody deal.
Oh, and by the way. That hospital I mentioned: they now have a room for Muslim men (and I imagine another for Muslim women) to wash their apparently god-offending feet. When I used to work there, that room was for the grieving relatives of seriously ill patients. Which is the better use? Still, I suppose it stops them doing it on the wards.

I wasn't talking about hospitals or rectal exams. I'm talking normal run-of-the-mill ass wiping and other bodily functions that happen in a bathroom and one way or another end up in the sink. Go look at studies and research into the amount of germs and bacteria in a public restroom and compare that to what would be found on the average human foot. I know which one I'd put money on being worse.

True, but I thought my broadening of the topic had been accepted.

Except for the last query about the ablution room, my post was in the context of the OP.

No, on the grounds of total lack of necessity for foot washing in that place and time.

Your objections were clearly related to hygiene. So now it's because you deem the foot washing to be unnecessary? So, anyone unnecessarily washing hands is also covered? Hygiene is not an issue?
Yet the next bit gets right back to hygiene:

Hands are waved about and go everywhere. Feet are enclosed and neither acquire nor spread infections whilst so constrained.

Hands are dirty and therefore need washing, feet are clean and do not need washing.
So, you do not object to the washing of feet, because it is not a hygiene concern? You object only because it is unnecessary? There would be no problem with someone washing dirty feet? Have I got that right?

Wards are crowded enough and have limited enough facilities without several relatives of each patient suddenly creating mayhem by whipping off their shoes and dipping their feet in the sink. I wasn't there at the time, so I don't know what they did for towels, btw.

You weren't there so you don't know about towels, but you know all about the mayhem?


I don't know. It's no longer next to the Intensive Care ward, for sure. Maybe somebody else has been displaced, maybe public money has been spent on an extension somewhere in the hospital. All over a delusion.

So you actually have no idea whether allowing people to conduct a religious ritual has put anyone else at a disadvantage?
Why then did you imply that such was the case?


Let's not let a few facts get in the way, shall we?

natselrox wrote:

Mantisdreamz wrote:[
I take my shoes off whenever I have the chance!

<- One of those people who take my shoes off at a restaurant under a table.

Same here! I even put my feet up on the chair! Have been politely restrained by the waiters quite a number of times!

Me too, I just didn't want to say that out loud.

I don't think I was meant for class, to be honest.

Kuia wrote:
You weren't there so you don't know about towels, but you know all about the mayhem?

I saw the four relatives visiting the patient. I was told about the disruption caused by washing feet after I'd left. I wasn't told how they dried their feet because it never occurred to me to ask. In the OP's case, water was left on the floor - not ideal if it occurred in the hospital, the ward had a couple of very wobbly patients who were prone to wandering about.

Oeditor wrote:

Kuia wrote:
You weren't there so you don't know about towels, but you know all about the mayhem?

I saw the four relatives visiting the patient. I was told about the disruption caused by washing feet after I'd left. I wasn't told how they dried their feet because it never occurred to me to ask. In the OP's case, water was left on the floor - not ideal if it occurred in the hospital, the ward had a couple of very wobbly patients who were prone to wandering about.

The disruption you are are describing could also easily be created by any extra activities in the bathroom including unnecessary or inconsiderate hand washing.

Um, we used to do this in High school after band practice. We marched on a grass field, and if it hit dew point or rained the night before, our legs, shoes and feet would get pretty muddy. Never even occurred to us that it might wig other people out if we washed up in a sink.

Oeditor wrote: In the OP's case, water was left on the floor - not ideal if it occurred in the hospital, the ward had a couple of very wobbly patients who were prone to wandering about.

Not a lot of wobbly patients wandering around in the school, are there?
But, if the water on the floor is the concern, fair enough. Anyone leaving water on the floor is equally guilty.
Your focus on the foot washing is based on your hatred of the religious practice. Be honest about that and stop trying to dress it up with hygiene and safety issues.

whats amusing is that hands are likely more dirty than then feet

wunksta wrote:whats amusing is that hands are likely more dirty than then feet

That has been pointed out, but somehow was turned into a reason why one shouldn't wash one's feet in the basin!

Kuia wrote:
That has been pointed out, but somehow was turned into a reason why one shouldn't wash one's feet in the basin!

then what is the purpose of a basin i wonder...

Sorry for not responding to my own thread. It went off the active threads for about a week, so I thought it was dead and I just found it now!

A good point was made about feet possibly being cleaner than hands. But I'm reminded now about a sign I saw in a different public washroom which said 'no spitting in the sink'. I know they also have these at trash cans on the streets of Hong Kong for the Chinese visitors. Is there something dirtier about spit than feet, I wonder. I know I'm changing the topic a little.

Btw, the guy I saw in the washroom put his feet, still wet without wiping directly back into his shoes with no socks. That cannot be good.