Brexit

felltoearth · **#701** by **felltoearth** » Aug 10, 2017 2:16 pm

At this point what are the advantages for the EU for Britain to remain? There might be a few, but if May et al change their minds, I imagine the concessions would be unpalatable.

Tracer Tong · **#702** by **Tracer Tong** » Aug 10, 2017 3:03 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:It's highly unlikely, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's totally impossible. As I've said before, the EU would prefer Britain not to leave.

I wonder where you found that snippet. I have never read anything like that only in diplomatic speak and you dont take that seriously? You are under an illusion. The UK has the EU back since the time it joined.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, to be honest.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

So joining the Euro and Schengen. No more rebates and an undertaking that any attempt at leaving will not be made. Are all acceptable to you?

We've been through this also: were the article 50 process, by mutual agreement, to be cancelled, Britain would not need to reapply to join the EU, since it would never have left. In that case, it would not be bound to accept the terms that new applicants must accept.

What's acceptable to me is that Britain leave the EU. I'm not raising the possibility of the exit process being cancelled because I would like that to happen, but simply to correct your misunderstandings of the process (for now the second time).

tuco · **#703** by **tuco** » Aug 10, 2017 3:22 pm

felltoearth wrote:At this point what are the advantages for the EU for Britain to remain? There might be a few, but if May et al change their minds, I imagine the concessions would be unpalatable.

The advantages at this point are same as before article 50 was triggered. As far as I know, there is no indication the UK, in case of trying to withdraw the notice to leave, would be asked any concessions.

Regarding Scot Dutchy - Tracer Tong exchange. Indeed, we've been over it couple of times and nothing in the Lisbon Treaty prevents cancellation of the withdrawal process as per article 50, except mutual disagreement. And again, as far as I know, there is no indication that such agreement could not be reached, rather the opposite.

Scot Dutchy · **#704** by **Scot Dutchy** » Aug 10, 2017 3:26 pm

Do you think the EU would cancel the art 50 process without conditions? Dream on.

Asked about Mr Barnier’s alleged request, a European commission source told The Guardian: “Article 50 does not provide for the unilateral withdrawal of notification. In any dealings with the European Parliament, Michel Barnier reiterated the above principle.”

The European Parliament resolution, passed last Wednesday, said: “A revocation of notification needs to be subject to conditions set by all EU27 [states] so they cannot be used as a procedural device or abused in an attempt to improve the actual terms of the United Kingdom’s membership.”

EU negotiator pushed to stop Theresa May withdrawing Article 50 before Brexit

Read what you like in it but conditions agreed by all EU 27 will be imposed on the UK.

tuco · **#705** by **tuco** » Aug 10, 2017 3:33 pm

Large and bold :) however, it states clearly: cannot be used .. to improve the actual terms. If the UK would not want to improve, just keep status quo? It does not say.

Tracer Tong · **#706** by **Tracer Tong** » Aug 10, 2017 4:12 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Do you think the EU would cancel the art 50 process without conditions?

I don't know; they might try to add a (legally binding) condition that article 50 not be triggered again for a period of time, for example, but that's my speculation. In any case, this isn't the issue you raised.

Scot Dutchy · **#707** by **Scot Dutchy** » Aug 10, 2017 5:34 pm

Never mind. It is all part of the issue which is art 50.

OlivierK · **#708** by **OlivierK** » Aug 10, 2017 9:10 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Returning to the EU? Dont think so. The UK does not meet the criteria of art 49 and there is a queue and the Brexiteers would commit harikiri than ever trying to grovel to the EU.

Leaving aside everything else, can we at agree that there isn't a queue? That's the most stupid argument, whether against UK re-entry or a quick acceptance of membership for an independent Scotland, because it's completely without basis.

Rather than a queue, there's a process and a set of eligibility criteria. Due to the complex nature of the process, it's likely that countries that commence it sooner will complete it sooner, but there's no reference in the process to a country's membership being contingent on how any other country is progressing with the application process. For countries such as post-Brexit UK or newly independent Scotland, who already meet the vast majority of criteria due to their history of membership, the process could reasonably be expected to completed more quickly, assuming the will and competence to do so (a given in Scotland, less so for the UK).

The idea that a compliant membership application would be held up by, say, Turkey's inability to meet conditions required, is just bullshit, and already contradicted by reality. There is no queue.

Scot Dutchy · **#709** by **Scot Dutchy** » Aug 11, 2017 8:36 am

The UK does not meet the criteria set down in art 49 so what in the hell are you on about? Agreement for membership has to be approved by all and sundry. An independent Scotland was assured that would given all the help it required to enter the EU.

Here is the EU's own list of countries waiting to join:
European Neighbourhood Policy And Enlargement Negotiations

Little England has a snowball's chance in hell of joining.

Tracer Tong · **#710** by **Tracer Tong** » Aug 11, 2017 9:29 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:The UK does not meet the criteria set down in art 49 so what in the hell are you on about? Agreement for membership has to be approved by all and sundry. An independent Scotland was assured that would given all the help it required to enter the EU.

Here is the EU's own list of countries waiting to join:
European Neighbourhood Policy And Enlargement Negotiations

Little England has a snowball's chance in hell of joining.

Criteria aren't laid out in article 49; if you're interested in what criteria are required, see here: https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enla ... bership_en

Olivier's point is that there's no 'queue' with regards to joining the EU; it's a matter of whether you meet the requirements, not of how many countries have applied before you. Note that he's also talking about a reapplication of a future, post-Brexit Britain; this is a separate issue to the matter of a possible withdrawing of the article 50 notification.

Scot Dutchy · **#711** by **Scot Dutchy** » Aug 11, 2017 9:45 am

Of course it is a queue. It is not a British queue so therefore it is not a queue. The Dutch queue for the tram but they dont go all through the one door.

Cancelling the art 50 process has not got a snowballs chance in hell so there is no possibility or do you know something that nobody else does not know? It has to get mutual consent so forget it.
You voted to leave did you not?

ronmcd · **#712** by **ronmcd** » Aug 11, 2017 9:47 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Of course it is a queue. It is not a British queue so therefore it is not a queue. The Dutch queue for the tram but they dont go all through the one door.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I needed a laugh this morning.

Tracer Tong · **#713** by **Tracer Tong** » Aug 11, 2017 10:24 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Of course it is a queue. It is not a British queue so therefore it is not a queue. The Dutch queue for the tram but they dont go all through the one door.

Don't really know what you're trying to say here.

Scot Dutchy wrote:Cancelling the art 50 process has not got a snowballs chance in hell so there is no possibility or do you know something that nobody else does not know? It has to get mutual consent so forget it.

It's highly unlikely, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's totally impossible.

Scot Dutchy wrote:You voted to leave did you not?

Yeah. Who didn't?

Fallible · **#714** by **Fallible** » Aug 11, 2017 11:48 am

Um...

Scot Dutchy · **#715** by **Scot Dutchy** » Aug 11, 2017 11:55 am

UK trade deficit widens as fall in sterling fails to improve export sales

Brexit negotiators urged to safeguard terms of trade with EU amid signs UK becoming more dependent on deals with bloc

Britain’s trade position with the rest of the world worsened in June as the sharp fall in the value of the pound since the Brexit vote failed to lift sales of UK-made goods abroad.

The trade in goods deficit widened unexpectedly to £12.7bn, from £11.3bn in May, as exports fell by 2.8% but imports rose by 1.6% according to the Office for National Statistics. It was the biggest deficit in nine months and much wider than economists’ forecasts of £11bn.

The figures are the latest sign that a weak pound is failing to boost exports, despite making British goods cheaper abroad. The pound is 13% lower against the dollar than it was on the day of the EU referendum, at $1.2988. It is down 15% against the euro, at €1.1052.

Weaker exports in June were driven by a 7.9% fall to countries outside the EU, while goods exported to EU member states rose by 2.7%.

“The UK is becoming more and not less dependent on the European Union, whatever the result of the referendum last year,” said Edward Hardy, an economist at World First. “The numbers are a firm signal that the continent is still the place to be for selling overseas and making the most of the weaker pound.”

More...

And it is leaving.

ronmcd · **#716** by **ronmcd** » Aug 11, 2017 1:10 pm

Fallible wrote:Um...

My catchall response to almost everything to do with Brexit.

ronmcd · **#717** by **ronmcd** » Aug 17, 2017 9:25 am

Brexit! Remember that?

Iain MacWhirter:

So freedom of movement remains. And we're staying in Customs Union. Beginning to look as if UK is cribbing from SNP.

TBF This is not a million miles from the Scottish Government's proposals in the December White Paper.

EU migrants can come to live in Britain after Brexit

Freedom of movement will continue under plans, with no immigration controls along Irish border

talkietoaster · **#718** by **talkietoaster** » Aug 17, 2017 12:07 pm

Right so if I get this right.

My nation is dependent on the trading bloc of Europe but wants to leave while staying the customs union and free movement.

Then why not stay in the union?

ronmcd · **#719** by **ronmcd** » Aug 17, 2017 12:09 pm

talkietoaster wrote:Right so if I get this right.

My nation is dependent on the trading bloc of Europe but wants to leave while staying the customs union and free movement.

Then why not stay in the union?

Reasons. Squirrel!

talkietoaster · **#720** by **talkietoaster** » Aug 17, 2017 12:24 pm

ronmcd wrote:
talkietoaster wrote:Right so if I get this right.

My nation is dependent on the trading bloc of Europe but wants to leave while staying the customs union and free movement.

Then why not stay in the union?

Reasons. Squirrel!

I am fucking losing my mind from Trump to Brexit. Just the idiocy that is in our nations and I just do not get it.

Do people think we can become an empire again or something? The empire was not that great to begin with we were cunts to the world on many levels and realised we were cunts and gave the land back. Even then like the partion of India we did it like cunts.

Why do we want to go back to being cunts when we can be less of a cunt especially to ourselves. We are the worst performing enconomy in europe right now, so now we are cunts for that too.

Can we have a reasonable leader to be elected that can stop brexit negotiations and ask to forget that stupid article 50 that was sent and claim Scotland did it to piss us off or something.

But fuck it fish!!! Oh yeah the fish that Farage would have improved whilst being an MEP by negotiating fishing quotas.

Sorry I started this reply with the most civic of intentions now I just hate the fucking world of politics. If I was Snake Pilskin right now I would type the 666 code as well.

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