How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#381  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 21, 2015 10:06 am

chairman bill wrote:Ah, more insightful political analysis from Scot Dutchy.

BTW, you never got around to commenting on the massive Tory U-turn I noted earlier (see above video). Is it just Labour policy changes that are problematic?


What the tories do is not the discussion here. The discussion is about the mess Corbyn is making but of course to blinkered here that is not possible. He cant do wrong is the standard POV. Well maybe to people in the wrong it is but those who have more understanding of politics he is destroying the party but maybe that is his whole intention. His past political actions does indicate that he does not want to tow the party line and wants to divide the party so as to force anyone right of him out of it. By then Labour can join up with SWP and form the real left wing party that Corbyn seems to desire.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#382  Postby Sendraks » Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am

Scot Dutchy wrote: His past political actions does indicate that he does not want to tow the party line


Absolutely - he won't vote against his beliefs. Seems like a very principled thing to do. It brought him to the attention of the Labour leadership often enough. They pay very close attention to their rebels.

Scot Dutchy wrote:and wants to divide the party so as to force anyone right of him out of it. By then Labour can join up with SWP and form the real left wing party that Corbyn seems to desire.


Is this a pipedream of yours Scot? Sounds like a pipedream to me. I'm not about to give your pipedreams any serious consideration.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#383  Postby ED209 » Oct 21, 2015 10:26 am

It certainly sounds very 1983 to me.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#384  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 21, 2015 10:30 am

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote: His past political actions does indicate that he does not want to tow the party line


Absolutely - he won't vote against his beliefs. Seems like a very principled thing to do. It brought him to the attention of the Labour leadership often enough. They pay very close attention to their rebels.

Scot Dutchy wrote:and wants to divide the party so as to force anyone right of him out of it. By then Labour can join up with SWP and form the real left wing party that Corbyn seems to desire.


Is this a pipedream of yours Scot? Sounds like a pipedream to me. I'm not about to give your pipedreams any serious consideration.


We will shall see. Remember the Social Democrats?
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#385  Postby chairman bill » Oct 21, 2015 10:35 am

I want to know where he's towing the party line. Maybe he'll tow it all the way to Grimsby or something. Or the Kremlin. Whaddya think, Scot?
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#386  Postby hackenslash » Oct 21, 2015 10:39 am

Sendraks wrote:It brought him to the attention of the Labour leadership often enough. They pay very close attention to their rebels.


That can't be right. According to our resident political expert, voting against the party line is exactly the way to stay anonymous, or something.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#387  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 21, 2015 10:43 am

hackenslash wrote:
Sendraks wrote:It brought him to the attention of the Labour leadership often enough. They pay very close attention to their rebels.


That can't be right. According to our resident political expert, voting against the party line is exactly the way to stay anonymous, or something.


Well what action did the party take against him or what attention did they give him? He was left pretty much to do what he wanted. Why bother about a left wing nutter of a rebel?
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#388  Postby OlivierK » Oct 21, 2015 10:50 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
chairman bill wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Here is Milne's latest offerings in the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/profile/seumasmilne

Is the man serious?


You clearly aren't. That's a profile page, not his latest article.


They are articles written by him or cant you read?

He is a stupid left wing cunt who should be in the SWP.

So he is carrying out his political philosophy. What do you expect?
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#389  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 21, 2015 10:52 am

OlivierK wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
chairman bill wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Here is Milne's latest offerings in the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/profile/seumasmilne

Is the man serious?


You clearly aren't. That's a profile page, not his latest article.


They are articles written by him or cant you read?

He is a stupid left wing cunt who should be in the SWP.

So he is carrying out his political philosophy. What do you expect?


I agree but it is not going to help Labour.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#390  Postby Sendraks » Oct 21, 2015 10:58 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Well what action did the party take against him or what attention did they give him? He was left pretty much to do what he wanted. Why bother about a left wing nutter of a rebel?


Because rebels are embarrassing to the Leadership. It's bad enough having the opposition question your policies, let alone your own party.

As for what they did, I know the standard practise is for the party whips to a) try and get rebels on board before a vote, especially where there is a three line whip and b) for the whips to speak with people afterwards if they voted differently than expected. What those discussions entail, I've no idea, as I'm neither a Labour MP nor a Labour Party Whip. I imagine reading a few biographies might provide some insights?
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#391  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 21, 2015 11:10 am

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Well what action did the party take against him or what attention did they give him? He was left pretty much to do what he wanted. Why bother about a left wing nutter of a rebel?


Because rebels are embarrassing to the Leadership. It's bad enough having the opposition question your policies, let alone your own party.

As for what they did, I know the standard practise is for the party whips to a) try and get rebels on board before a vote, especially where there is a three line whip and b) for the whips to speak with people afterwards if they voted differently than expected. What those discussions entail, I've no idea, as I'm neither a Labour MP nor a Labour Party Whip. I imagine reading a few biographies might provide some insights?


Cant remember reading about any actions taken but then every party has loons and usually just ignores them.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#392  Postby Sendraks » Oct 21, 2015 11:18 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Cant remember reading about any actions taken but then every party has loons and usually just ignores them.


Your compelling argument from ignorance is noted. Thank you for your time.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#393  Postby hackenslash » Oct 21, 2015 11:22 am

In answer to the thread title, it appears that the answer is 'by sending in Elmer Fudd', in the form of Scot.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#394  Postby mcgruff » Oct 21, 2015 1:40 pm



Is this a joke? Millions Thousands of poor Spectator readers will have come down to breakfast to find an unreflective, prejudice-confirming, rabble-rousing dump by Alex Massie, right on the kitchen table.

Fair play though, you can tell he put a lot of effort into it. His vivid prose evokes visions of an arched back, hunched shoulders, clenched jaw, and eyes mere slits of pain as he pinches off another paragraph and collects his fee.

As for Seumus Schmemas Seabiscuit yer man, I should think that someone with a questioning mind who isn't afraid to question sacred truths is exactly the kind of person you want near government.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#395  Postby Emmeline » Nov 25, 2015 5:52 pm

John McDonnell waving Mao’s Little Red Book in the Commons. What could possibly go wrong?
(...)
No, I appreciate that it sounds an unlikely scenario. Yet, in the Commons this afternoon, this is what the shadow chancellor did. If you weren’t watching, don’t worry – you’ll see the footage. It’ll be in every Conservative Party TV broadcast for the next four and a half years.

What makes it all the more fascinating is, he clearly thought he was being clever. He was responding to George Osborne’s Autumn Statement, and had just made a perfectly reasonable point about the Chancellor sucking up to the Chinese. But evidently Mr McDonnell felt that the point, as it stood, lacked impact. He wanted to make it memorable. Imaginative. Visual. Was there, perhaps, some sort of satirical prop he could deploy, to win a laugh at the Chancellor’s expense?

He reached into his trouser pocket. “To assist Comrade Osborne in his dealings with his newfound comrades,” he crowed, “I’ve brought along Mao’s ‘Little Red Book’!”

Sitting just along from Mr McDonnell was Labour’s deputy leader, Tom Watson. Very slowly, Mr Watson’s mouth opened. Then it closed. Then his eyes closed. Then they reopened. No – they hadn’t deceived him. There was his colleague, flicking casually through the selected musings of the most prolifically murderous Communist dictator in history.

Mr Watson shot a glance at Jeremy Corbyn. The Labour leader appeared entirely unperturbed – even by the delighted gusts of laughter billowing across from the Tory benches. The laughter was so delirious that the Speaker had to appeal for calm. Rehearsing this little skit, Mr McDonnell probably imagined that the laughter would come from the MPs sitting behind him, rather than those sitting opposite. But it was too late now. He battled on.

“I think you’ll find this invaluable,” he continued. “Let’s quote from Mao…”

The quote, in the end, didn’t sound much of a zinger, but it certainly found an appreciative audience. “MOOOOOORRRRE!” bellowed Tory MPs. Mr Osborne rose, and picked up the Little Red Book, which Mr McDonnell had tossed in his direction. “Oh look!” he cried. “It’s his personal signed copy!” David Cameron looked as if he might burst.

Afterwards, a helpful Labour Party staffer visited the parliamentary press corridor to inform each office in turn that “obviously John was just joking”. Indeed he was. And the joke went down very well. Albeit with the wrong people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/autu ... ong.html?x

McDonnell is a 1st class, stupid arsehole. He could have wiped the floor with Osborne but instead we get this "Chairman Mao" gift to the Tories. McDonnell & Corbyn have as much political sense as the Chuckle Brothers. Pillocks.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#396  Postby ED209 » Nov 25, 2015 6:01 pm

I wonder how many words you will have to say about this compared to the tories' sale of state assets to china, the tories' humilation at the hands of labour over tax credits, the people to be impoverished on transition to universal credit, the fact that osborne has stumbled into his own trap and in fact will breach his own stupid cap for the next three years, or indeed anything else that the tories want you to forget about today.
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#397  Postby Emmeline » Nov 25, 2015 6:10 pm

ED209 wrote:I wonder how many words you will have to say about this compared to the tories' sale of state assets to china, the tories' humilation at the hands of labour over tax credits, the people to be impoverished on transition to universal credit, the fact that osborne has stumbled into his own trap and in fact will breach his own stupid cap for the next three years, or indeed anything else that the tories want you to forget about today.


If I were an MP or councillor or someone with a political media presence, I'd have plenty to say about all of that because I could make a difference by saying it.

Here is just a tiny little forum where people can discuss things or blow off steam or make each other laugh. There's no audience, there's no political impact. You did realise that didn't you?
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#398  Postby GrahamH » Nov 25, 2015 6:14 pm

Still, it's interesting to see what holds people's attention and moves them to comment. Today was apparently overwhelmingly negative for you.. Did you find any positives? Anything to cheer or laugh at?
Why do you think that?
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#399  Postby ED209 » Nov 25, 2015 6:21 pm

Emmeline wrote:
ED209 wrote:I wonder how many words you will have to say about this compared to the tories' sale of state assets to china, the tories' humilation at the hands of labour over tax credits, the people to be impoverished on transition to universal credit, the fact that osborne has stumbled into his own trap and in fact will breach his own stupid cap for the next three years, or indeed anything else that the tories want you to forget about today.


If I were an MP or councillor or someone with a political media presence, I'd have plenty to say about all of that because I could make a difference by saying it.

Here is just a tiny little forum where people can discuss things or blow off steam or make each other laugh. There's no audience, there's no political impact. You did realise that didn't you?


It's a shame that you believe the guff about not being able to make a difference, when you (still?) claim to be a member and supporter of the labour party. Maybe if you spent more energy getting out and opposing the tories rather than the labour leadership you would have a different perspective, and think substantive policy announcements in the autumn statement are more commentworthy than a bit of threatre. Things like the humiliating tax credits u-turn don't just fall out of the sky after all. You did realise that didn't you?
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Re: How will the Tories attack Tom and Jerry ?

#400  Postby Emmeline » Nov 25, 2015 6:34 pm

ED209 wrote:
Emmeline wrote:
ED209 wrote:I wonder how many words you will have to say about this compared to the tories' sale of state assets to china, the tories' humilation at the hands of labour over tax credits, the people to be impoverished on transition to universal credit, the fact that osborne has stumbled into his own trap and in fact will breach his own stupid cap for the next three years, or indeed anything else that the tories want you to forget about today.


If I were an MP or councillor or someone with a political media presence, I'd have plenty to say about all of that because I could make a difference by saying it.

Here is just a tiny little forum where people can discuss things or blow off steam or make each other laugh. There's no audience, there's no political impact. You did realise that didn't you?


It's a shame that you believe the guff about not being able to make a difference, when you (still?) claim to be a member and supporter of the labour party. Maybe if you spent more energy getting out and opposing the tories rather than the labour leadership you would have a different perspective, and think substantive policy announcements in the autumn statement are more commentworthy than a bit of threatre. Things like the humiliating tax credits u-turn don't just fall out of the sky after all. You did realise that didn't you?


Do you know what? You can fuck right off. With fucking bells on. I've been spending my energy opposing Tories all my life. Who the fuck are you to say that I should be doing more & how I should be doing it? I'll do what it takes (and I AM doing what it takes outside in the real world) to get Labour elected & I'm not taking any lessons or lectures from an arrogant twat on a forum.
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