Scot Dutchy wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

mrjonno wrote:

CarlPierce wrote:The refuges issue is a case in point he is off to protest today but will allowing lots of muslims from Syria into the country as compassionate at it might seem going to play well with the voters Labour needs. Cameron on the other hand has to appear like he cares while doing the minimum.

Its the fundamental difference Labour wants to 'do the right thing' while the Tories concentrate on getting the 38% they need to win elections

Which may well harm their chances because lots of people don't like unprincipled, two-faced power-hungry politicians. That likely featured in Corbyn's landslide victory over opponents more focussed on "getting the 38%".

People like their house prices to keep rising and could not care a fuck about migrants as long as they are somewhere else.

Queen's advisers strip Jeremy Corbyn of 'Right Honourable' title after Privy Council snub

(No.10 Cock-up. Corbyn does what Cameron did re Privy Council)

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/qu ... spartandhp

‘Embarrassing! Embarrassing! Embarrassing!’ Labour’s John McDonnell sums up his own U-turn

(...) “I suppose I should deal straightforwardly with the issue of the U-turn,” he began. “Yes, two weeks ago I recommended that Labour MPs should vote for [the Government’s] charter – and today I’ll be urging them to vote against!”

The Tories were in stitches. Thighs were slapped. Sides were held. The Government benches were a wriggling hullabaloo of cartoonish hilarity. Valiantly Mr McDonnell tried to make himself heard. For Labour’s sake, it might have been better if he hadn’t.
“Embarrassing!” he admitted, loudly. “Embarrassing! Embarrassing!” He kept shouting it, anxious to be heard above the din. “Embarrassing! Embarrassing! Yes, of course it is! But…”

I assume he was trying to make himself look honest, a man big enough to own up to his mistakes. I’m not sure it was entirely wise, though, to describe his own U-turn as “embarrassing” quite so many times, if at all. Or to shout it quite so loudly. Still, that’s what he did. I fear the Tory spin team will consider it an ideal soundbite for their next TV broadcast. Or perhaps for their next poster. (“Labour is ‘embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing! Yes, of course it is!’ – John McDonnell, Labour.”)

Emmeline wrote:

‘Embarrassing! Embarrassing! Embarrassing!’ Labour’s John McDonnell sums up his own U-turn

(...) “I suppose I should deal straightforwardly with the issue of the U-turn,” he began. “Yes, two weeks ago I recommended that Labour MPs should vote for [the Government’s] charter – and today I’ll be urging them to vote against!”

The Tories were in stitches. Thighs were slapped. Sides were held. The Government benches were a wriggling hullabaloo of cartoonish hilarity. Valiantly Mr McDonnell tried to make himself heard. For Labour’s sake, it might have been better if he hadn’t.
“Embarrassing!” he admitted, loudly. “Embarrassing! Embarrassing!” He kept shouting it, anxious to be heard above the din. “Embarrassing! Embarrassing! Yes, of course it is! But…”

I assume he was trying to make himself look honest, a man big enough to own up to his mistakes. I’m not sure it was entirely wise, though, to describe his own U-turn as “embarrassing” quite so many times, if at all. Or to shout it quite so loudly. Still, that’s what he did. I fear the Tory spin team will consider it an ideal soundbite for their next TV broadcast. Or perhaps for their next poster. (“Labour is ‘embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing! Yes, of course it is!’ – John McDonnell, Labour.”)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -turn.html

I think there are better ways of performing u-turns & hopefully McDonnell has learnt some lessons from this one.

Emmeline wrote:I think there are better ways of performing u-turns

mcgruff wrote:

Emmeline wrote:I think there are better ways of performing u-turns

Actually I don't think there are.

There are certainly more dishonest ways to do it. That's what the tories found so hilarious and peculiar: a man attempting to talk honestly to the commons and the electorate. Duly noted.

nunnington wrote:

mcgruff wrote:

Emmeline wrote:I think there are better ways of performing u-turns

Actually I don't think there are.

There are certainly more dishonest ways to do it. That's what the tories found so hilarious and peculiar: a man attempting to talk honestly to the commons and the electorate. Duly noted.

Yes, it's astonishing really that being honest is found to be amusing or embarrassing. I suppose this is because most politicians pretend that they're not changing their mind, and then all the others collude with that pretence, as they know that eventually they will be doing it themselves, and will expect the same collusion.

I suppose also they expect voters to be scandalized by honesty. Good God, what a corrupt mess it has all become.

/cross-post.

Sendraks wrote:
That the Tories find McDonnell's attempt at honesty embarrassing, should demonstrate how horribly corrupt these individuals are. Honesty is seen as weakness. As a less than laudable trait.

Gordon Brown's war chest for the next general election keeps growing, opening up the prospect of further tax cuts in the March budget.



[The figure] gives scope for further tax cuts or even public spending increases in the March 2001 budget



Trevor Williams, Lloyds TSB



The government banked another large surplus in October. The public sector net cash surplus was £7.4bn, taking the total surplus for the year so far to £35.4bn

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1032126.stm

Emmeline wrote:

Sendraks wrote:
That the Tories find McDonnell's attempt at honesty embarrassing, should demonstrate how horribly corrupt these individuals are. Honesty is seen as weakness. As a less than laudable trait.

It isn't the Tories who said it was embarrassing. It was McDonnell himself who shouted the word several times from the despatch box.

GrahamH wrote:

nunnington wrote:

mcgruff wrote:

Emmeline wrote:I think there are better ways of performing u-turns

Actually I don't think there are.

There are certainly more dishonest ways to do it. That's what the tories found so hilarious and peculiar: a man attempting to talk honestly to the commons and the electorate. Duly noted.

Yes, it's astonishing really that being honest is found to be amusing or embarrassing. I suppose this is because most politicians pretend that they're not changing their mind, and then all the others collude with that pretence, as they know that eventually they will be doing it themselves, and will expect the same collusion.

I suppose also they expect voters to be scandalized by honesty. Good God, what a corrupt mess it has all become.

/cross-post.

The embarrassing part is the error of judgement in the first place. He decided to support the bill, then decided to oppose it.

Emmeline wrote:

Sendraks wrote:
That the Tories find McDonnell's attempt at honesty embarrassing, should demonstrate how horribly corrupt these individuals are. Honesty is seen as weakness. As a less than laudable trait.

It isn't the Tories who said it was embarrassing. It was McDonnell himself who shouted the word several times from the despatch box.

Sendraks wrote:

Emmeline wrote:

Sendraks wrote:
That the Tories find McDonnell's attempt at honesty embarrassing, should demonstrate how horribly corrupt these individuals are. Honesty is seen as weakness. As a less than laudable trait.

It isn't the Tories who said it was embarrassing. It was McDonnell himself who shouted the word several times from the despatch box.

I think you're misunderstood my post. I'm not tempted to be generous either and suggest that you have done so wilfully.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Emmeline wrote:

‘Embarrassing! Embarrassing! Embarrassing!’ Labour’s John McDonnell sums up his own U-turn

(...) “I suppose I should deal straightforwardly with the issue of the U-turn,” he began. “Yes, two weeks ago I recommended that Labour MPs should vote for [the Government’s] charter – and today I’ll be urging them to vote against!”

The Tories were in stitches. Thighs were slapped. Sides were held. The Government benches were a wriggling hullabaloo of cartoonish hilarity. Valiantly Mr McDonnell tried to make himself heard. For Labour’s sake, it might have been better if he hadn’t.
“Embarrassing!” he admitted, loudly. “Embarrassing! Embarrassing!” He kept shouting it, anxious to be heard above the din. “Embarrassing! Embarrassing! Yes, of course it is! But…”

I assume he was trying to make himself look honest, a man big enough to own up to his mistakes. I’m not sure it was entirely wise, though, to describe his own U-turn as “embarrassing” quite so many times, if at all. Or to shout it quite so loudly. Still, that’s what he did. I fear the Tory spin team will consider it an ideal soundbite for their next TV broadcast. Or perhaps for their next poster. (“Labour is ‘embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing! Yes, of course it is!’ – John McDonnell, Labour.”)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -turn.html

I think there are better ways of performing u-turns & hopefully McDonnell has learnt some lessons from this one.

Especially as there are plenty on the horizon.

mcgruff wrote:

Emmeline wrote:I think there are better ways of performing u-turns

Actually I don't think there are.

There are certainly more dishonest ways to do it. That's what the tories found so hilarious and peculiar: a man attempting to talk honestly to the commons and the electorate. Duly noted.

Emmeline wrote:What he should have done is not been embarrassed or said that he was. He should have said is it's perfectly acceptable to change one's mind based on new evidence (or persuasive arguments) because that's the rational thing to do and sums up "straight talking, honest politics" unlike the party opposite who are hypocritical and think politics is about pulling stunts to entertain the crowd.

Something like that anyway.

Emmeline wrote:

Sendraks wrote:

Emmeline wrote:

Sendraks wrote:
That the Tories find McDonnell's attempt at honesty embarrassing, should demonstrate how horribly corrupt these individuals are. Honesty is seen as weakness. As a less than laudable trait.

It isn't the Tories who said it was embarrassing. It was McDonnell himself who shouted the word several times from the despatch box.

I think you're misunderstood my post. I'm not tempted to be generous either and suggest that you have done so wilfully.

OK I've misunderstood you then. Could you explain it a bit more?