Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

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Where does your support lie in the conflict between Israel & Palestine?

1) I strongly support Israel.
6
9%
2) My sympathies lean towards Israel.
14
20%
3) I'm pretty much in the middle.
10
14%
4) My sympathies lean towards Palestine.
19
28%
5) I strongly support Palestine.
14
20%
6) I'm not sure what my opinion is on this issue.
6
9%
 
Total votes : 69

Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1201  Postby The_Piper » Mar 21, 2024 3:24 am

Arjan Dirkse wrote:
The_Piper wrote:To quote from your link "This "new(2017) document has been in the making for four years (…) This document reflects our position for now (…) The old charter was a product of its era, 30 years ago. We live in a different world today"."


Is this regarding the Hamas charter?

Honestly nobody should normalize Hamas. They're genocidal maniacs, no different from nazis.

How am I normalizing Hamas, they suck. I've posted Hamas bad in this thread at least twice already. I resent the assumptions. They are murderous lunatics.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1202  Postby The_Metatron » Mar 21, 2024 1:03 pm

That, they are.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1203  Postby Calilasseia » Mar 21, 2024 2:39 pm

Indeed, it's a part of the big lie Netanyahu and his cronies keep pushing, that anyone who doesn't support unrestricted IDF murder of Palestinians is a Hamas fanboy. That it's possible to regard Hamas as murderously reprehensible at the same time as being revolted by IDF murder of Palestinians, is a concept that Netanyahu and his cronies dare not allow to be thought. Though Netanyahu gave indications of his growing fascist tendencies some time ago to the perceptive, along with his willingness to connive and scheme to achieve dark ends.

Of course, that there exists Jewish opposition to Netanyahu both inside and outside Israel, exposes the lie that is his attempt to warp "anti-Semitism" into "Support us in exterminating Palestinians or you're a Nazi".
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1204  Postby The_Piper » Mar 21, 2024 7:59 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Indeed, it's a part of the big lie Netanyahu and his cronies keep pushing, that anyone who doesn't support unrestricted IDF murder of Palestinians is a Hamas fanboy. That it's possible to regard Hamas as murderously reprehensible at the same time as being revolted by IDF murder of Palestinians, is a concept that Netanyahu and his cronies dare not allow to be thought. Though Netanyahu gave indications of his growing fascist tendencies some time ago to the perceptive, along with his willingness to connive and scheme to achieve dark ends.

Of course, that there exists Jewish opposition to Netanyahu both inside and outside Israel, exposes the lie that is his attempt to warp "anti-Semitism" into "Support us in exterminating Palestinians or you're a Nazi".
Yes, Netanyahu is a murderous lunatic too. Somehow, the idea that since Hamas are murderers excuses other murderers is frankly, a position I'd expect only liars, murderous lunatics, and inept simpletons to hold. Netanyahu and the IDF have spread death, unfathomable suffering, famine, and extremism since October 7.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1205  Postby don't get me started » Mar 23, 2024 3:03 am

Quite. The notion that only the Palestinian side has murderous religious lunatics is demonstrably false. There are some REALLY unsavory people on the Israeli far right. And some of these murderous lunatics do hold positions of power and influence in Israel. But the supporters of murderous lunatics (of either side) indulge in the usual, pitiful, mote-and-beam discourse and just can't seem to comprehend that abuses and crimes are abuses and crimes because of what they are, not because of who commits them.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1206  Postby Arjan Dirkse » Mar 23, 2024 10:15 pm

The_Piper wrote:
Arjan Dirkse wrote:
The_Piper wrote:To quote from your link "This "new(2017) document has been in the making for four years (…) This document reflects our position for now (…) The old charter was a product of its era, 30 years ago. We live in a different world today"."


Is this regarding the Hamas charter?

Honestly nobody should normalize Hamas. They're genocidal maniacs, no different from nazis.

How am I normalizing Hamas, they suck. I've posted Hamas bad in this thread at least twice already. I resent the assumptions. They are murderous lunatics.


I'm sorry then, I must have misinterpreted your post.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1207  Postby The_Piper » Mar 24, 2024 12:11 am

That's ok. I haven't seen anyone here purposely defend or normalize Hamas yet. I was just commenting that their charter has changed since 1987, and quoted them about that.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1208  Postby THWOTH » Mar 26, 2024 2:02 pm

Does the US abstention at the UN on the latest ceasefire vote offer any hope that fighting might soon abate? I'm not hopeful.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1209  Postby The_Piper » Mar 26, 2024 4:20 pm

I think it raises the chance from 1%, but don't know by how much. I think if they do a full-scale invasion in Rafah, there's a decent chance we'll at least stop funding it. Maybe? How much that moves the needle, I don't know.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1210  Postby Tortured_Genius » Apr 02, 2024 7:02 am

Good grief - you can't get much more specific than this:

Image

The IDF is calling it a "tragic incident" (7 aid workers killed in a cleared coordinated convoy).

Humanitarian aid to Gaza has been suspended which is no doubt "unfortunate".
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1211  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 02, 2024 11:30 am

That looks like a Hellfire R9X strike. If so, this wasn't a "tragic incident", it was carefully planned and coordinated. It takes skill and expertise to deploy the Hellfire R9X, it's not a weapon that any idiot can use.

EDIT: more here. Better quality photo provided therein.

If that was an explosive munition, the vehicle would have been obliterated. That clean hole in the roof, and the rest of the vehicle remaining intact, very strongly suggests a Hellfire R9X was deployed.

Details are also emerging about the vehicle's occupants. One was from the UK, another from the US, another Polish, another Australian. More details about the charity organisation, and the Australian aid worker killed, are presented here.

That Banksy mural on the London Underground has just become all the more apposite.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1212  Postby Tortured_Genius » Apr 02, 2024 2:57 pm

One of those stories that gets updated as more detail comes in.

It gets worse and worse for the IDF - 3 UK citizens, 1 Australian, 1 Polish, 1 US-Canadian, 1 Palestinian in 3 vehicles destroyed by 3 specific strikes. Survivors from the first strike apparently ran to the other vehicles which were then destroyed with another 2 strikes.

Israeli defence sources told Haaretz that the aid workers’ vehicles had been hit three times by missiles fired from a drone because of erroneous suspicions that a terrorist was travelling with the convoy.


It's clear that as far as IDF weapons operators are concerned Gaza is a free-fire zone. This could only happen if the actual Rules of Engagement they are operating under fall far short of actively protecting non-combatants. It's not a "few bad apples" but a systemic distain for human life.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1213  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 02, 2024 4:17 pm

If as I suspect, an R9X was deployed, this wasn't an "accident". The decision to use an R9X goes a long way up the command chain, as its use comes under the heading of "special operations".

For that matter, I suspect many will want to know what Israel is doing with R9X munitions in its arsenal, if an R9X was indeed deployed.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1214  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 03, 2024 1:15 pm

New photos have been released of the targeted vehicles here, in an article quoting a former British national security advisor that the UK should suspend arms sales to Israel with immediate effect.

Again, the wreckage of all three bear signs of having been targeted with specialist anti-personnel precision guided munitions, and two look strikingly like the aftermath of a Hellfire R9X strike. Once again, munitions fitted with conventional high explosive or anti-tank warheads wouldn't have left so much clean wreckage, the vehicles would have been obliterated.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1215  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 03, 2024 5:28 pm

And now we have another chilling development ... war crimes plotted by AI ...
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1216  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 04, 2024 6:29 am

Ryan McBeth is on point much more than he is not, and this is what he has to say; I include some Hebrew vocabulary help for what Ryan says at the end:

https://www.haaretz.com/2012-11-08/ty-a ... df4fdd0000

Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1217  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 05, 2024 2:05 pm

More evidence is emerging that the WCK convoy targeting was deliberate.

The communications director for the United Nations aid agency Unrwa, Juliette Touma, also shed light on the “intense” coordination that routinely occurred with Israeli authorities prior to aid deliveries. The process is known as “deconfliction”.

“Only when they give us the approval do we move – and before we move we provide the Israeli authorities with quite a lot of detail,” Touma told ABC Radio National.

“We include the names and nationalities of the team that is travelling on the convoy, the content of the convoy, the number of vehicles that we are sending on that convoy, the route of that convoy including GPS coordinates with the Israeli authorities.”


Confronting an Israeli spokesperson on the matter, Sally Sara from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation was reported to have acted thus:

Hyman was pressed by the ABC’s Sally Sara to explain why the IDF had struck the vehicles “when you had clear and direct information about the vehicles, their path and who was inside those vehicles, that these were aid workers”.


Once again, the evidence is piling up that instead of operating as a disciplined military service, the IDF is acting as a revenge gangster militia.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1218  Postby The_Metatron » Apr 05, 2024 8:42 pm

The McDonalds corporation has bailed out of Israel. After one of their restaurants donated meals to the IDF, the company bought back all of the franchises in the country.

They want no part of that shit.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/05/12429743 ... es-boycott
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1219  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 05, 2024 8:46 pm

And now, even Sky News is issuing statements that the WCK air strike wasn't an "accident" ...

This wasn’t an accident. It was no mistaken misfire.

The IDF cell tracking the vehicles fired lethal precision-guided missiles into each car, one after the other.

Through blurred nighttime surveillance footage, they saw what they thought was a man carrying a gun and assumed he was a Hamas fighter.

They then assumed everyone else travelling in the vehicles were also Hamas. There was no evidence for this.

They kept firing because they saw passengers still alive.

The basic failure to pass details of the aid convoy down the chain of command is a damning slur on a military that thinks of itself as being one of the best in the world.

The decision to launch air strikes with the intent of killing people, based on unsound evidence, raises deeply troubling questions of ethics in combat.

It's a sad irony that one of the only reasons World Central Kitchen were operating at night was because of their previously good working relationship with the Israeli military.

Had six of the seven killed not been foreign aid workers, whose deaths caused an international outcry, then this investigation would not have happened and the Israeli military would not have been forced to explain its actions.

How many Palestinian civilians therefore have been killed in similar, uninvestigated cases of mistaken identity, we will probably never know.


You know you're in deep shit, when even a Murdoch owned media outlet is castigating you for your actions.
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Re: Israel & Palestine: Your Opinions?

#1220  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Apr 14, 2024 11:05 am

hopefully Israel will respect Irans right to defend itself.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )
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