I wonder how much support Biden will have by the time we reach the convention. I wouldn't be surprised if Sanders jumps back in. It could be an interesting convention.

I have a friend who thinks Cuomo might enter the race. And interesting thought.

Does the next president actually matter ?

The subversion of the US political system as well as the media (the two pillars of a working democracy) seems to have reached its summit with the installation of a manifestly incompetent malignant clown as president. Yet we have spent the entirety of Trump's presidency discussing his antics rather than the actual problem, which was very likely the intention of those behind his presidential campaign.
No doubt the easiest and most cost effective way to maintain the status quo (i.e. the entire country subservient to big money intrests) would be to get Trump re-elected. But would it be considered as anything worse than a minor setback (if that) by the policy-buying billionaires ?

Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far. A few mistakes, a few wins; certainly not the worst we've had here in recent history.

What do you see as the actual problem? It's a big country with a lot of people. We have a lot of problems; one being we don't always agree on what constitutes a "problem".

Ignorance is bliss. I'm jealous.

Some believe that it'll be a 2016 rematch...

As Biden struggles, Hillary waits for the call

BY LIZ PEEK, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 04/30/20
THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL


Hillary Clinton continues to hover in the wings, ready to step forward should Joe Biden fail.
...

...
Biden could choose Clinton as his running mate and then step down before the election and allow Hillary to run in his place.

Clinton is the only VP candidate who would be able to pull off such a last-minute switch. She has the team, the resources and the experience to be the nominee; Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), former Georgia state Rep. Stacey Abrams and Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) do not.

Clinton is ready and eager. She is desperate to avenge her 2016 loss (which she still blames on Putin) and has pumped up her public profile to keep herself in consideration. In past months, she has conducted endless interviews, promoted the uber-flattering four-part Hulu film about herself, made headlines by attacking Sanders and Mark Zuckerberg, and fired unending broadsides against Trump.

Most recently, she joined Vice President Biden in a town hall devoted to women’s issues, during which she effusively endorsed her longtime colleague. She reminisced about their time together in the Obama administration, talked about their mutual love of Scranton, Pa., where her father grew up, and recalled meetings in the Situation Room.

In fact, Clinton talked so much about their shared history that it was easy to forget that she was endorsing Biden. It almost sounded as though she was touting her own resume instead.

Maybe she was.
...

Full text at:
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/495371-as-biden-struggles-hillary-waits-for-the-call

The_Piper wrote:Ignorance is bliss. I'm jealous.

Unless you're privy to information that isn't public, we probably have the same information here. We may disagree on how to stratify or weight the information, but that doesn't make one of us ignorant or blissful. Although I can say I am rather happy. It has very little to do with President Trump, or Washington, or politics in general; more to do with family and friends.

I figured by your post that you must be ignorant of a lot of the events that have taken place in this administration. That you're not, informs me that, respectfully, it's not worth my time to type anything else. Because you claim to know everything I'd type already. I'm waiting for an appointment with a doctor to inject disinfectant into my blood stream, and shine UV light or just very strong light, through my skin to treat a potential respiratory infection.

I didn't claim to know everything you would type, I said we probably have all the same information. Information is pretty easy to come by. I would be wary of any doctor that would inject disinfectant into your bloodstream right now. You may want to cancel that appointment. As for the UV light, Aytu Bioscience is testing something similar; not through the skin, but attached to a catheter.

noncredo wrote:Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far. A few mistakes, a few wins; certainly not the worst we've had here in recent history.

What do you see as the actual problem? It's a big country with a lot of people. We have a lot of problems; one being we don't always agree on what constitutes a "problem".

I'm trying to figure out if you are serious here.

I can see how some might think that way if they completely ignored the situation outside their own personal locality and didn't worry too much about probable future events. If you adopt that mindset, so long as you have a job, house, food and medical care then who cares about the stuff people keep wittering on about which doesn't immediately affect you personally.

I'm guessing that's the way most of Trump's supporters think - how prevalent is this really?

How easy is it really to ignore or explain away the damage his administration has wrought?

What I'm trying to work out is what proportion of the US voting population are so massively insulated from the outside world and operation of the federal government that they think he really is doing a good job and should be re-elected?

Depressingly I get the feeling that it's quite high.

noncredo wrote:I didn't claim to know everything you would type, I said we probably have all the same information. Information is pretty easy to come by. I would be wary of any doctor that would inject disinfectant into your bloodstream right now. You may want to cancel that appointment. As for the UV light, Aytu Bioscience is testing something similar; not through the skin, but attached to a catheter.

I was being sarcastic, no one is going to inject me with disinfectant into my blood or lungs. It was something that Trump thought of, and broadcast to the world, because covid19 does a number on the lungs. He thought that in all of the decades of studying viruses by untold thousands of people, no one ever thought of disinfectant. He has a great "you know what" he said, while tapping the side of his head.

Tortured_Genius wrote:

noncredo wrote:Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far. A few mistakes, a few wins; certainly not the worst we've had here in recent history.

What do you see as the actual problem? It's a big country with a lot of people. We have a lot of problems; one being we don't always agree on what constitutes a "problem".

I'm trying to figure out if you are serious here.

I am.

I can see how some might think that way if they completely ignored the situation outside their own personal locality and didn't worry too much about probable future events. If you adopt that mindset, so long as you have a job, house, food and medical care then who cares about the stuff people keep wittering on about which doesn't immediately affect you personally.

Think what way?

Probable future events...I don't worry too much about that. I would say I worry about an average amount. I don't really care about the things people witter on about. People engage in pointless chatter all the time for all sorts of reason. Did you mean witter or did you mean something else there?

I'm guessing that's the way most of Trump's supporters think - how prevalent is this really?

How easy is it really to ignore or explain away the damage his administration has wrought?


What I'm trying to work out is what proportion of the US voting population are so massively insulated from the outside world and operation of the federal government that they think he really is doing a good job and should be re-elected?

Depressingly I get the feeling that it's quite high.

The rest of this is just loaded questions. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Tortured_Genius wrote:What I'm trying to work out is what proportion of the US voting population are so massively insulated from the outside world and operation of the federal government that they think he really is doing a good job and should be re-elected?

Depressingly I get the feeling that it's quite high.

1202 days into Trump's reign 43.3% of the US population approves of what he has done and is doing. Forty fucking three point three per cent.

Not that the population in the US is exceptional. Here in Australia we managed to re-elect Scotty from marketing last year. Strictly speaking, we did not vote for him directly, but when we voted for the candidates in our particular seats we knew that we'd either finish up with him or whatsisname. 41.4% for the conservative coalition parties before distribution of preferences (51.5% after) was enough for Morrison to be returned to office with a slightly increased majority in the lower house.

I'm wondering what wins you see, noncredo?

Personally, I don't see that many, and certainly not enough to cancel out the ignorance, incompetence, bigotry, incuriosity, dishonesty, corruption and resultant hostility to oversight, and constant elevation of personal interest over national interest.

noncredo wrote:Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far. A few mistakes, a few wins; certainly not the worst we've had here in recent history.

What do you see as the actual problem? It's a big country with a lot of people. We have a lot of problems; one being we don't always agree on what constitutes a "problem".

Well, I guess if you're ok with ethnic cleansing, state sanctioned child kidnapping and torture, wanton destruction of Earth's ability to sustain life, anti-abortion judges, insane pseudoscience, abysmal handling of a pandemic that everyone knew was coming, extorting foreign nations into helping him cheat our elections, and general kakistocracy on a level rarely seen in human history, then yeah, Trump's just fine.

Insane. And horrifying, frankly.

Seabass wrote:

noncredo wrote:Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far. A few mistakes, a few wins; certainly not the worst we've had here in recent history.

What do you see as the actual problem? It's a big country with a lot of people. We have a lot of problems; one being we don't always agree on what constitutes a "problem".

Well, I guess if you're ok with ethnic cleansing, state sanctioned child kidnapping and torture, wanton destruction of Earth's ability to sustain life, anti-abortion judges, insane pseudoscience, abysmal handling of a pandemic that everyone knew was coming, extorting foreign nations into helping him cheat our elections, and general kakistocracy on a level rarely seen in human history, then yeah, Trump's just fine.

Insane. And horrifying, frankly.

Nice Gish Gallop.

noncredo wrote:Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far.

Then you either haven't been paying attention, or don't recognize incompetence. There's some degree of subjectivity no doubt, but he's pushed so far past any sort of boundary that you'd have to reduce the term to near-meaninglessness in order to say he doesn't qualify. It's so obvious that he has no idea what he's doing and his attempts to hide it are equally incompetent. I can only guess that what you mean is his manifest incompetence isn't a problem for you, for whatever reason.

What do you see as the actual problem?

Where to start? I think, if you've paid any attention over the last three years then you know pretty much all the problems I'd mention. They're no big secret, as you've said. And no, I'm not talking about the ones like my toddler having a larger vocabulary and being able to actually spell words on a regular basis. A problem if we don't want to be seen as the sort of people who want to be led by an illiterate, but I understand that there are people who don't care how stupid they look (assuming they grasp it) or they just think there's bigger fish to fry, so don't worry about it. I wonder, is there anything that could possibly be raised as an actual problem that you wouldn't simply hand-wave away as "well that's just your opinion, man"? Why don't you pick what you see as the strongest "actual problem" that people have raised and explain why it isn't actually a problem. Because I could waste my time sitting here all day listing things, but you know them already, right? Let's cut to the chase.

noncredo wrote:

Seabass wrote:

noncredo wrote:Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far. A few mistakes, a few wins; certainly not the worst we've had here in recent history.

What do you see as the actual problem? It's a big country with a lot of people. We have a lot of problems; one being we don't always agree on what constitutes a "problem".

Well, I guess if you're ok with ethnic cleansing, state sanctioned child kidnapping and torture, wanton destruction of Earth's ability to sustain life, anti-abortion judges, insane pseudoscience, abysmal handling of a pandemic that everyone knew was coming, extorting foreign nations into helping him cheat our elections, and general kakistocracy on a level rarely seen in human history, then yeah, Trump's just fine.

Insane. And horrifying, frankly.

Nice Gish Gallop.

The problem is that when you get someone who is so thoroughly unsuited for the office he holds, he fucks up daily. After more than a thousand days, the list of his fuckups is going to be pretty long. It's true that Seabass has used a degree of hyperbole, but if you ask for Trump's failings, you're always going to get a long list, and it's not because people are prone to the Gish Gallop, it's because the list is long. It's like complaining about getting a long list if you ask people to list streets in New York City.

noncredo wrote:

Seabass wrote:

noncredo wrote:Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far. A few mistakes, a few wins; certainly not the worst we've had here in recent history.

What do you see as the actual problem? It's a big country with a lot of people. We have a lot of problems; one being we don't always agree on what constitutes a "problem".

Well, I guess if you're ok with ethnic cleansing, state sanctioned child kidnapping and torture, wanton destruction of Earth's ability to sustain life, anti-abortion judges, insane pseudoscience, abysmal handling of a pandemic that everyone knew was coming, extorting foreign nations into helping him cheat our elections, and general kakistocracy on a level rarely seen in human history, then yeah, Trump's just fine.

Insane. And horrifying, frankly.

Nice Gish Gallop.

You did ask "What do you see as the actual problem?" and got a list of them. Dismissing the list of problems as Gish Gallop does not negate them, but since you describe your political position as "Republicanish" I am not surprised at your reaction.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

noncredo wrote:Manifestly incompetent huh? I think he's done a decent job so far.

Then you either haven't been paying attention, or don't recognize incompetence. There's some degree of subjectivity no doubt, but he's pushed so far past any sort of boundary that you'd have to reduce the term to near-meaninglessness in order to say he doesn't qualify. It's so obvious that he has no idea what he's doing and his attempts to hide it are equally incompetent. I can only guess that what you mean is his manifest incompetence isn't a problem for you, for whatever reason.

What do you see as the actual problem?

Where to start? I think, if you've paid any attention over the last three years then you know pretty much all the problems I'd mention. They're no big secret, as you've said. And no, I'm not talking about the ones like my toddler having a larger vocabulary and being able to actually spell words on a regular basis. A problem if we don't want to be seen as the sort of people who want to be led by an illiterate, but I understand that there are people who don't care how stupid they look (assuming they grasp it) or they just think there's bigger fish to fry, so don't worry about it. I wonder, is there anything that could possibly be raised as an actual problem that you wouldn't simply hand-wave away as "well that's just your opinion, man"? Why don't you pick what you see as the strongest "actual problem" that people have raised and explain why it isn't actually a problem. Because I could waste my time sitting here all day listing things, but you know them already, right? Let's cut to the chase.

The question was in response to "...discussing his antics rather than the actual problem..." It wasn't aimed at you or anything you have said.