Shadow cast over the success of the Rosetta Mission

laklak · **#61** by **laklak** » Nov 15, 2014 2:46 pm

Mountain, meet mole hill. The guy is probably IQ 180 region, and he's an honest-to-god rocket scientist. I'm going to guess he might be a bit socially inept. But this shrill, infantile reaction to a stupid shirt does nothing to advance the cause of true feminism, it merely tars the entire movement with the SJW brush. They've done more damage to their own cause than any number of nerdgeek shirts. I haven't signed on to A+ yet, but I'll bet they're frothing at their unisex mouths.

Skinny Puppy · **#62** by **Skinny Puppy** » Nov 15, 2014 2:49 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:Rosetta mission scientist cracks sex jokes while wearing a shirt covered in scantily clad women

And then the universe exploded in a shirtstorm of commentary and disgust.

During the webcast, numerous old, white guys spoke of ambition, collaboration, courage, and hope for the future; but no one had the bravery to stop one man from making a fool of himself, embarrassing their organization in their moment of triumph, and signalling that the field of robotic space exploration is not ready to treat women with respect and dignity.

http://thefinchandpea.com/2014/11/13/no ... to-school/

What a berk. But I suppose we can forgive him because he's a scientist, probably lives in his lab, and quite possibly has no clue what the current social climate is like, how huge the backlash against feminism has become, and how women and girls still struggle to be taken seriously in STEM.

Edit: I see he has issued an apology.

Doubtdispelled · **#63** by **Doubtdispelled** » Nov 15, 2014 2:55 pm

laklak wrote:this shrill, infantile reaction

Maybe I ought to take back what I said about you the other day, Lak.

Anyone who find it necessary to use the words 'shrill' and 'infantile' when involved in a discussion such as this one immediately discredits his position, as these are emotive words indicative of an emotional knee-jerk reaction, and not a logical, rational one. You know the drill, that crime that women are always being accused of and which accusations are used in attempts to discredit their position.......

Acetone · **#64** by **Acetone** » Nov 15, 2014 2:59 pm

The reaction to the shirt truly is shrill and infantile.

Doubtdispelled · **#65** by **Doubtdispelled** » Nov 15, 2014 3:23 pm

Acetone wrote:The reaction to the shirt truly is shrill and infantile.

But then again, almost anything women say that men don't agree with or is critical of some aspect of their behaviour is likely to be described as such.

Tell me, how does this help to further understanding between the sexes?

Oh, and see above.

VazScep · **#66** by **VazScep** » Nov 15, 2014 3:27 pm

epepke wrote:The thing, though, is that outraged reactions like the shirt-storm are also a problem and are also discouraging young women from going into science. I suppose the people doing it think they are on the "good side," but it really isn't helping. However satisfying outrage may be for the people who enjoy it, it hurts.

My usual reaction to hearing a colleague explain around the pub table that, for example, women generally don't make good researchers because they are naturally risk averse is to keep my mouth shut and withdraw. I'm possibly just a coward, but I suspect I'd just be able to contribute better to the problem by not shouting the guy down but instead going along to Women in Science and Women in Tech events, finding someone important looking and asking "anything I can do?"

laklak · **#67** by **laklak** » Nov 15, 2014 3:34 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
But then again, almost anything women say that men don't agree with or is critical of some aspect of their behaviour is likely to be described as such.

That's true, but it doesn't mean that this particular reaction isn't shrill and infantile. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is honestly more supportive of feminism than I am, despite my sometimes infantile humor (I'm never shrill, though). However, making one of the greatest scientific achievements of all time about a shirt can't be described as anything other than infantile. I worked for over 25 years in a highly technical field, and the only place I ever encountered any sort of sexism was in the Mideast. I worked for women as often as I worked for men. The idea that girls will be put off of STEM careers because of a shirt is frankly silly.

Clive Durdle · **#68** by **Clive Durdle** » Nov 15, 2014 3:57 pm

Pulsar · **#69** by **Pulsar** » Nov 15, 2014 4:15 pm

Blogpost from Elly Prizeman, the woman who made the shirt.

http://ellyprizemanupdate.blogspot.co.uk/

Dr. Matt Taylor is an amazing, kind, loving and sensitive person.
I never expected him to wear my gift to him for such a big event and was surprised and deeply moved that he did. I made that shirt for his birthday last month as I make clothes just as a hobby and he asked if I would make him one. He is a close and very loved friend so made sure I did this for his birthday present.

I appreciate that everyone is entitled to their opinion and having worked with people and events for a long time I have certainly learnt that you are never going to please everyone. I defy any living person to tell me truthfully that they have never made an action that may have caused an unwanted reaction in their lives even with the best intentions in mind.

I am so proud of Matt and his achievements and the fact he is an interesting and very brave person to do what he did with the very sweet gesture he made towards my gift and to wear his individuality with pride. It has certainly made history more exciting and bold.

There is no ‘meaning’ behind the shirt. I just bought material and sewed it together. Nothing sinister at all was meant behind it at any point. It was just a bold and individual fashion item. I did make Matt’s shirt. You can see it from a few weeks back on his Twitter feed and our studio feed (@EternalArtEssex) as well as my Instagram.

I am not going to apologize for having a hobby. In actual fact I am a nobody who just crafted a shirt for a friend. I never expected it to get to this magnitude and am humbled and overwhelmed.

Pulsar · **#70** by **Pulsar** » Nov 15, 2014 4:32 pm

There's a support page for Dr. Matt Taylor on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/drtatttaylor/timeline?ref=page_internal

Doubtdispelled · **#71** by **Doubtdispelled** » Nov 15, 2014 4:35 pm

laklak wrote:However, making one of the greatest scientific achievements of all time about a shirt

Are you quite sure that it isn't his wearing of the shirt without even giving a thought to the impact it might have, the people who saw him in it and didn't say anything, that has made this greatest scientific achievement all about a shirt?

Are you also sure that the reaction to protests about it aren't themselves shrill and infantile?

Some that I have seen certainly are.

Are you saying that because of the context, anyone who saw and objected to it should just put up and shut up?

M'kay.

Skinny Puppy · **#72** by **Skinny Puppy** » Nov 15, 2014 4:42 pm

There is no ‘meaning’ behind the shirt.

To sensible people, no there isn’t, but to those that lie in wait (patiently) hoping that they’ll find something, anything to give their day meaning and to then cause a furor of indignation and outrage... it’s like finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. Like a horse with blinders on they cherry pick their causes to such an extent that a theist would be embarrassed at their own humble efforts.
Blanket statements are then thrown out, like shit against a wall, hoping, praying even, that some of it will stick.

I just bought material and sewed it together. Nothing sinister at all was meant behind it at any point.

The SJWs don’t need justification for their cause, once outraged they’re a farce to be reckoned with.

I am not going to apologize for having a hobby.

Good for you! :thumbup:

One should never have to apologise for the out-and-out stupidity of others’ inability to use reason and logic and to see things for what they are... not for what they want them to be.

Doubtdispelled · **#73** by **Doubtdispelled** » Nov 15, 2014 4:46 pm

Pulsar wrote:Blogpost from Elly Prizeman, the woman who made the shirt.

http://ellyprizemanupdate.blogspot.co.uk/

Dr. Matt Taylor is an amazing, kind, loving and sensitive person.
I never expected him to wear my gift to him for such a big event and was surprised and deeply moved that he did. I made that shirt for his birthday last month as I make clothes just as a hobby and he asked if I would make him one. He is a close and very loved friend so made sure I did this for his birthday present.

I appreciate that everyone is entitled to their opinion and having worked with people and events for a long time I have certainly learnt that you are never going to please everyone. I defy any living person to tell me truthfully that they have never made an action that may have caused an unwanted reaction in their lives even with the best intentions in mind.

I am so proud of Matt and his achievements and the fact he is an interesting and very brave person to do what he did with the very sweet gesture he made towards my gift and to wear his individuality with pride. It has certainly made history more exciting and bold.

There is no ‘meaning’ behind the shirt. I just bought material and sewed it together. Nothing sinister at all was meant behind it at any point. It was just a bold and individual fashion item. I did make Matt’s shirt. You can see it from a few weeks back on his Twitter feed and our studio feed (@EternalArtEssex) as well as my Instagram.

I am not going to apologize for having a hobby. In actual fact I am a nobody who just crafted a shirt for a friend. I never expected it to get to this magnitude and am humbled and overwhelmed.

I don't think anyone is assuming that there was supposed to be any meaning behind it or anything sinister about the shirt.

It has certainly made history more exciting and bold.

Er.... maybe.

What it may more certainly have done is to give a big leg-up to anyone who tries to argue against sexism in science.

Pulsar · **#74** by **Pulsar** » Nov 15, 2014 4:47 pm

The Young Turks get it.
Thank you, Ana Kasparian, well said!! :clap:

Doubtdispelled · **#75** by **Doubtdispelled** » Nov 15, 2014 4:48 pm

Skinny Puppy wrote:Blanket statements are then thrown out

Can we see some of these blanket statements?

Doubtdispelled · **#76** by **Doubtdispelled** » Nov 15, 2014 4:54 pm

Pulsar wrote:The Young Turks get it.
Thank you, Ana Kasparian, well said!!

Will someone please explain to her that it isn't the shirt itself that is the problem?

FFsake!

Doubtdispelled · **#77** by **Doubtdispelled** » Nov 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Pulsar wrote:The Young Turks get it.

No, Pulsar, they really don't.

"It could have had a swastika on it."

I give up. I think. In the face of such utter puerile stupidity, I give up.

I just can't compete with such ignorance.

Evolving · **#78** by **Evolving** » Nov 15, 2014 5:09 pm

I feel sorry for the man, and the footage of his apology in the video posted by Pulsar makes me feel sorrier for him. I absolutely believe he meant no harm and had no idea that any kind of negative message could be associated with his shirt. He probably is indeed, as lak said, a bit socially inept, and thought he was showing, as Rumraket and Pulsar said, that he's not a nerd but cool and amusing.

It's just a pity that he chose this way of showing that. Context is everything.

Doubtdispelled · **#79** by **Doubtdispelled** » Nov 15, 2014 5:22 pm

Evolving wrote:I feel sorry for the man, and the footage of his apology in the video posted by Pulsar makes me feel sorrier for him. I absolutely believe he meant no harm and had no idea that any kind of negative message could be associated with his shirt. He probably is indeed, as lak said, a bit socially inept, and thought he was showing, as Rumraket and Pulsar said, that he's not a nerd but cool and amusing.

It's just a pity that he chose this way of showing that. Context is everything.

I agree, Ev. I've already said I feel for him too.

But sadly, I also have to agree with Rachel when she said

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:I was hoping this topic wouldn't come up here because, yeah, it clearly can't be discussed on this board in a fashion where the reasons people are perturbed by this dude's stupid shirt and why it's so insensitive to wear such a thing, particularly when you're representing an industry that women very often feel excluded from or marginalised in to the entire world just won't be heard. I was sad to see you'd brought it up because I foresaw something ugly and utterly unproductive.

"the reasons people are perturbed by this dude's stupid shirt and why it's so insensitive to wear such a thing..... just won't be heard"

I was stupidly hoping for better.

That'll teach me.

kennyc · **#80** by **kennyc** » Nov 15, 2014 6:13 pm

How about this for teaching: http://www.viralglobalnews.com/science/ ... sts/23590/

Shadow cast over the success of the Rosetta Mission

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