Bless your heart, DD.

I was hoping this topic wouldn't come up here because, yeah, it clearly can't be discussed on this board in a fashion where the reasons people are perturbed by this dude's stupid shirt and why it's so insensitive to wear such a thing, particularly when you're representing an industry that women very often feel excluded from or marginalised in to the entire world just won't be heard. I was sad to see you'd brought it up because I foresaw something ugly and utterly unproductive. I CERTAINLY didn't intend to contribute to the discussion.

And I won't. I will say though that I'd be annoyed to see a colleague wearing cheesecakey illustrated tits and ass to work and I'd be fucking embarrassed if they represented my organisation and/or industry wearing such a thing. If I was the boss of someone who wore something that tasteless to work there would be no chance in hell I'd let them present on the organisation's behalf wearing it (and I say that as someone who's been required to modify their clothing at work because it was unprofessional.) I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened afterward resulting in the apology.

Buuuuuuut we're already onto derails about how you worded your posts and how that's being mean to men or scientists or this organisation and how dare you so nothing you say will be heard no matter how succinct.

I'm going to have a burger.

Pulsar wrote:Oh, and by the way, that shirt was made by his friend's WIFE. She's an artist called Elly Prizeman. It was a gift for his birthday!!

And I'm sure it's a very nice, well made shirt. But I have to ask, what was she thinking, and I'll bet she didn't expect him to wear it on international TV.

It probably wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't coupled it with the comments that compounded his faux-pas 'the sexiest mission there’s ever been..... 'She’s sexy, but I never said she was easy.'

For what it's worth, I do feel sorry for the guy. I'm sure he didn't even stop to consider the impression he would make.

I've been thinking about what the reaction would be if I made such a shirt for any of my three boys. 'You have to be kidding me' would be one response, 'You want to get me killed?' might be another, 'You really think I'm going to wear that?', or even 'Have you gone mad, woman?'.

The eldest, well he might be more accepting, he's a great piss-taker anyway, but I'll bet his girlfriend would refuse to be seen dead with him wearing it.

BlackBart wrote:I have a Coop Devil girl T-shirt ( A gift from my wife! ) It would never occur to me to wear it to work let alone whilst being a public spokesman for them. There's a time and a place - this wasn't it.

Well quite.

Lol, made by a woman therefore can't be sexist. Fail.

I feel bad for the guy too. I don't think he had a damn clue how wearing that distasteful shirt would impact anyone. I appreciate the apology. I feel worse for the women being abused extensively because they had the audacity to criticise his taste.

If it weren't for the fact that science has been one big fucking boy's club for centuries, I'd have no complaints. This guy would be guilty of nothing more than being a flaming heterosexual. Admittedly, I find flaming heterosexuals really annoying, but I try not to pass judgement on them. But being a flaming heterosexual whilst acting as a media spokesperson for science is just shitty PR nowadays, and for that reason, the guy is a prat (by the way, the word "prat" is about as offensive as "wally").

Maybe this cock-up doesn't reflect his team, and maybe they're actually a bunch of respectful, inclusive and diverse scientists. I don't know. And the fact that I don't know and am too lazy too find out is precisely why this is a PR cock-up, and why the guy is a prat.

I had something to say about the supposed hypocrisy of feminists, but I can't see how any of that stuff is relevant.

Pulsar wrote:You know what, if this is what feminism has become, then I'm more than happy to call myself an anti-feminist. It used to be a positive movement for equal rights and opportunities for women. But, at least in North America, it has turned into a fundamentalist hate movement. It's a disease.

Jesus fuck, lynching a guy and ruining the best moment of his life, all because of what he wears. What a sad fucking bunch of losers.

I couldn't put it better myself, so I'm just quoting you instead

The mathematics and engineering required to place a widget on a comet is difficult and exclusive. Fortunately the role of 'retrospective internet wardrobe advisor' is there to allow people with no appreciation of, or indeed apparent interest in the science of the project to still get involved.

Hopefully New Scientist will accommodate this new and vibrant demographic by replicating the daily fail's 'sidebar of shame' gotcha-ing prominent scientists' clothing faux-pas and shots of their underpants as they drunkenly fall out of a car at 3am

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:I was hoping this topic wouldn't come up here because, yeah, it clearly can't be discussed on this board in a fashion where the reasons people are perturbed by this dude's stupid shirt and why it's so insensitive to wear such a thing, particularly when you're representing an industry that women very often feel excluded from or marginalised in to the entire world just won't be heard. I was sad to see you'd brought it up because I foresaw something ugly and utterly unproductive.

I'm sorry, Rachel.

I did stop to think before starting the thread for precisely the kind of reason you describe here.

But then I reasoned that that is exactly why I should go ahead, because if I didn't, I would be just one more woman keeping her mouth shut, and we all know how that pans out. If you don't say anything then it is taken as tacitly accepting of the status quo.

That this forum is male dominated should not be a bar to anyone saying anything just because some might be offended by it.

Edited to extend the last line......

ED209 wrote:The mathematics and engineering required to place a widget on a comet is difficult and exclusive. Fortunately the role of 'retrospective internet wardrobe advisor' is there to allow people with no appreciation of, or indeed apparent interest in the science of the project to still get involved.

Hopefully New Scientist will accommodate this new and vibrant demographic by replicating the daily fail's 'sidebar of shame' gotcha-ing prominent scientists' clothing faux-pas and shots of their underpants as they drunkenly fall out of a car at 3am

Oh Ed, you are so sweet.

I'll be sure to keep a look out for this in my next copy of New Scientist when it drops through the door.

That's a good, homemaking thing to do, to subscribe to New Scientist for the men in your life.

I don't know how I feel abut this, apart from thinking that it's probably not important for anyone but me to know how I feel about this.

Evolving wrote:That's a good, homemaking thing to do, to subscribe to New Scientist for the men in your life.

How did you guess, Ev? I generally leave it lying around in the bathroom so they can edumacate themselves while taking a dump.

Doubtdispelled wrote:Oh, will you just look at all the outrage at the outrage. Just goes to show how many people still need to get a clue.

Rumraket wrote:

Doubtdispelled wrote:Rosetta mission scientist cracks sex jokes while wearing a shirt covered in scantily clad women

And then the universe exploded in a shirtstorm of commentary and disgust.

During the webcast, numerous old, white guys spoke of ambition, collaboration, courage, and hope for the future; but no one had the bravery to stop one man from making a fool of himself, embarrassing their organization in their moment of triumph, and signalling that the field of robotic space exploration is not ready to treat women with respect and dignity.

http://thefinchandpea.com/2014/11/13/no ... to-school/

What a berk. But I suppose we can forgive him because he's a scientist, probably lives in his lab, and quite possibly has no clue what the current social climate is like, how huge the backlash against feminism has become, and how women and girls still struggle to be taken seriously in STEM.

And you think him wearing that particular shirt contributes to that? Get out more.

Get out more? Why? How would that help?

You think his wearing that shirt on that particular occasion was a good move?

I think it was utterly irrelevant to the idea that "women and girls need to be taken more seriously in STEM fields". I don't believe for one second that any person was discouraged from seeking a career in science or technology because he wore that shirt. Not one fucking person.

There may be a lot of stupid "boys clubs" and misogyny going around in some departments, I don't think any evidence has been put forward that it is the case here. And when it comes to determining why it is women generally are not as interested as men in pursuing carees in this field, I don't believe it has to do with men wearing shirts like his. Ever.

There might be a lot of stupid shit going around about "girls being bad at math" and through bullshit like that get discouraged from pursuing careers in these fields, combined with all the horsehit popular culture reality fucknuttery with tanned, brainless bimbos being about nothing but purse-dogs and fashion, and "accidentally leaking" their sex-tapes while being fucked unconscious by copy-pasted brainless pop/rap-singer #177 million. If you want an explanation for why there are too few women in science, look there.

Strontium Dog wrote:I couldn't put it better myself, so I'm just quoting you instead

Meanwhile, Jennifer Lawrence flashed her tits at the gala premiere of the new Hunger Games movie, Kristen Stewart showed her boobs at the Hollywood Film Awards, and Kim Kardashian posted pics of her giant naked ass because she hadn't been in the news for 3 days. But obviously these women are much better role models than the astrophysicist who put a spacecraft on a comet. After all, they didn't wear a funny t-shirt.

You're still not getting it, guys.

Pulsar wrote:

Strontium Dog wrote:I couldn't put it better myself, so I'm just quoting you instead

Meanwhile, Jennifer Lawrence flashed her tits at the gala premiere of the new Hunger Games movie, Kristen Stewart showed her boobs at the Hollywood Film Awards, and Kim Kardashian posted pics of her giant naked ass because she hadn't been in the news for 3 days. But obviously these women are much better role models than the astrophysicist who put a spacecraft on a comet. After all, they didn't wear a funny t-shirt.

I don't think any one here thinks they are better role models. But I totally agree, to focus on this guy instead of them is a mistake. I think they're more to blame for any misapprehensions about what women can or should do with their careers than guys with horrible taste in shirts.

If anything, I'm more inclined to think this guy is helping to break the stereotype that scientists are skinny, pale, freckled nerds with glasses, braces and dull brown/grey suits who run around with calculators and get wedgies all the time and talk to each other in binary code, than he's supposedly contributing to discouraging women from pursuing careers in science.

Doubtdispelled wrote:You're still not getting it, guys.

If the complaint was merely that wearing an ugly shirt at a press conference is a bad idea, I actually agree. But very few people seem to be making that their main complaint. It's apparently about women being discouraged from seeking careers in STEM fields. I simply don't believe shirts like that contribute to that phenomenon.

The attitudes behind allowing someone to wear it on tv are though. No one thought to stop him and he didn't stop to think about it either. His shirt and his words are a potential sign for the kind of attitudes that are shown behind closed doors towards women. They might be nothing going on bad behind those doors but to an outsider, perhaps a female looking to get into the career it can send up warning flags that they wont be respected.

I agree if the career you are talking about is 'TV location film crew member'. Don't they employ someone specifically to apply make-up and adjust clothing before filming? He must be a real sexist pig.

When Tommie Smith and John Carlos gave Black Power salutes at the 1968 Olympics, that was a political statement.

If a female astrophysicist wore a "male tears" tea shirt when presenting the Rosetta landing, that would be one too, with which most of us here, possibly all of us, would be unhappy.

I think the point being made here is that that shirt, worn when and where it was, also constitutes a statement; he just didn't realise he was making it.

It's a great pity that all this is tarnishing a marvellous scientific success.