Tory Party watch

The Hanging Monkey · **#3281** by **The Hanging Monkey** » Feb 11, 2016 1:55 pm

Hopefully this will be another Poll Tax.

Aca · **#3282** by **Aca** » Feb 11, 2016 2:10 pm

Remember 11th February 2016. It's the day Jeremy Hunt tried to kill the NHS

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/new ... 66946.html

Scot Dutchy · **#3283** by **Scot Dutchy** » Feb 11, 2016 2:18 pm

Welcome to the American health care system. Health care should be based on emergency A&E departments but that will be all that will left after the tories are finished with waiting times of three hours if you are lucky.

Sendraks · **#3284** by **Sendraks** » Feb 11, 2016 2:20 pm

Aca wrote:
Remember 11th February 2016. It's the day Jeremy Hunt tried to kill the NHS

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/new ... 66946.html

Remember this.

Jeremy genuinely, in his heart of hearts, believes he is the saviour of the NHS. I shit ye not on this. And I say this only to give you a flavour of what you're up against. This fucker genuinely believes that, by screwing Junior Doctors, he is DOING THE RIGHT THING.

Don't have nightmares thinking about this.

Sendraks · **#3285** by **Sendraks** » Feb 11, 2016 2:21 pm

Healthcare should be based in the community, in primary care. If we're getting that right, there should be less demand on emergency and acute services.

IF anyone thinks healthcare should be based in A&E demonstrates that a) something is wrong with that particular healthcare system and b) the person knows fuck all about how healthcare should operate.

Scot Dutchy · **#3286** by **Scot Dutchy** » Feb 11, 2016 2:25 pm

Sendraks wrote:Healthcare should be based in the community, in primary care. If we're getting that right, there should be less demand on emergency and acute services.

IF anyone thinks healthcare should be based in A&E demonstrates that a) something is wrong with that particular healthcare system and b) the person knows fuck all about how healthcare should operate.

Entirely agree but in America it is all that a great number of people get and the way things are going in Britain it seams to be going that way.

Sendraks · **#3287** by **Sendraks** » Feb 11, 2016 2:29 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Entirely agree but in America it is all that a great number of people get and the way things are going in Britain it seams to be going that way.

In America it is a provision and service configuration problem. People got to A&E because that is what they have.

In the UK it is an educational issue. People fixate on going to A&E for trivial issues or because they want to see a Doctor, regardless of whether they need to see one or not. This behaviour isn't consistently manifest across the whole population, certain demographics are worse for it than others. There is an ongoing education campaign across the whole system, to encourage people to access other services first before going to their GP or A&E for minor complaints.

Scot Dutchy · **#3288** by **Scot Dutchy** » Feb 11, 2016 2:57 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Entirely agree but in America it is all that a great number of people get and the way things are going in Britain it seams to be going that way.

In America it is a provision and service configuration problem. People got to A&E because that is what they have.

In the UK it is an educational issue. People fixate on going to A&E for trivial issues or because they want to see a Doctor, regardless of whether they need to see one or not. This behaviour isn't consistently manifest across the whole population, certain demographics are worse for it than others. There is an ongoing education campaign across the whole system, to encourage people to access other services first before going to their GP or A&E for minor complaints.

When they have to start paying for other services because they are privatised A&E will be the only option.

Often here beside the A&E is a GP post where people are sent if it is outside normal surgery times and not an emergency otherwise they are referred to their own GP.

You have to through your GP for all services. It is the gate-watcher principle of our health care.

ED209 · **#3289** by **ED209** » Feb 11, 2016 3:03 pm

@JamesBlunt wrote:I'm officially handing over my Cockney Rhyming title to @Jeremy_Hunt

Sendraks · **#3290** by **Sendraks** » Feb 11, 2016 3:10 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:When they have to start paying for other services because they are privatised A&E will be the only option.

Well as there is no sign of that on the horizon, yet.

Scot Dutchy wrote:You have to through your GP for all services. It is the gate-watcher principle of our health care.

I'm sure it works for NL but, we're trying to move away from that model as it places unnecessary demand on GPs.

Briton · **#3291** by **Briton** » Feb 11, 2016 3:17 pm

ED209 wrote:
@JamesBlunt wrote:I'm officially handing over my Cockney Rhyming title to @Jeremy_Hunt

Scot Dutchy · **#3292** by **Scot Dutchy** » Feb 11, 2016 3:32 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:When they have to start paying for other services because they are privatised A&E will be the only option.

Well as there is no sign of that on the horizon, yet.

It is the way this government wants to go though.

Scot Dutchy wrote:You have to through your GP for all services. It is the gate-watcher principle of our health care.

I'm sure it works for NL but, we're trying to move away from that model as it places unnecessary demand on GPs.

It is the only way to control costs. Our old system did not have it which was why it failed. If your system is efficient with enough GP's there are no unnecessary demands being made.

So in Britain you make a direct appointment with a specialist in an hospital and if you are a private patient you are given preference? So you judge that you need a specialist?
Here when you see a specialist after you get a referral from your GP you can make repeat visit appointments for up to a year if your specialist thinks it is required.

Sendraks · **#3293** by **Sendraks** » Feb 11, 2016 3:39 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
It is the way this government wants to go though.

My be so, but they have no policy in place to achieve it or direct it.

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is the only way to control costs. Our old system did not have it which was why it failed. If your system is efficient with enough GP's there are no unnecessary demands being made.

Well actually no, it is not the only way to control costs. You don't need to see a GP for everything, many minor issues can be selfcared with advice from an appropriate source like NHS 111 or a pharmacy. GPs are not there to handle everything. There are simply not enough GPs to do that.

Scot Dutchy wrote:So in Britain you make a direct appointment with a specialist in an hospital and if you are a private patient you are given preference? So you judge that you need a specialist?

No you would go via a GP. They would refer you to a hospital.

However, just as everything does not require a referral to a specialist, nor does everything require a visit to a GP.

Case in point - swine flu.
I got my diagnosis over the phone via NHS Direct (now NHS 111). I was instructed to go home and contact my GP over the phone. Then arrange for someone to collect my prescription for me, rather than go to the pharmacy or GP myself. If my condition worsened, I was to call back and they'd provide further advice.

Briton · **#3294** by **Briton** » Feb 11, 2016 3:52 pm

Sendraks wrote:
You don't need to see a GP for everything, many minor issues can be selfcared with advice from an appropriate source like NHS 111 or a pharmacy. GPs are not there to handle everything. There are simply not enough GPs to do that.

Even when you do go to the surgery the nurses handle a lot of your needs. I saw the Doctor recently for the first time in ages when something came up in a blood test (taken by ta practice nurse of course). There's a specialist asthma nurse who i see every six months or so. They do flu jabs etc.

Sendraks wrote:
I got my diagnosis over the phone via NHS Direct (now NHS 111). I was instructed to go home and contact my GP over the phone. Then arrange for someone to collect my prescription for me, rather than go to the pharmacy or GP myself. If my condition worsened, I was to call back and they'd provide further advice.

All the pharmacies deliver around here (although I don't use that service).

THWOTH · **#3295** by **THWOTH** » Feb 11, 2016 3:58 pm

Scot Dutchy · **#3296** by **Scot Dutchy** » Feb 11, 2016 4:02 pm

Sendreks wrote:Well actually no, it is not the only way to control costs. You don't need to see a GP for everything, many minor issues can be selfcared with advice from an appropriate source like NHS 111 or a pharmacy. GPs are not there to handle everything. There are simply not enough GPs to do that.

You are talking about the same thing. Our apotheek (pharmacy) does not help you. You can buy over counter medicine there or at a drug store. You can get information over the drugs but only a doctor will give a diagnosis.

My medical centre runs a daily telephone consultant line but the doctor will issue a prescription when he sees you.

Sendraks · **#3297** by **Sendraks** » Feb 11, 2016 4:07 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:You are talking about the same thing. Our apotheek (pharmacy) does not help you. You can buy over counter medicine there or at a drug store. You can get information over the drugs but only a doctor will give a diagnosis.

In the UK you can get a diagnosis from NHS 111 or in a pharmacy. In the case of pharmacists, in the UK some of them can prescribe for conditions that are within their competence. Some nurse practitioners can also prescribe within their competence.

If the diagnosis is something serious, both a pharmacist and NHS 111 will advise you to see a GP.

There simply isn't any need, and it is inefficient, to funnel everyone through their GP.

mrjonno · **#3298** by **mrjonno** » Feb 11, 2016 4:13 pm

Not sure you can even see a private hospital specialist without a referral from your GP ( my insurance certainly won't pay for it without one but then it doesn't seem to pay for an awful lot bar hip replacements)

Scot Dutchy · **#3299** by **Scot Dutchy** » Feb 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:You are talking about the same thing. Our apotheek (pharmacy) does not help you. You can buy over counter medicine there or at a drug store. You can get information over the drugs but only a doctor will give a diagnosis.

In the UK you can get a diagnosis from NHS 111 or in a pharmacy. In the case of pharmacists, in the UK some of them can prescribe for conditions that are within their competence. Some nurse practitioners can also prescribe within their competence.

If the diagnosis is something serious, both a pharmacist and NHS 111 will advise you to see a GP.

There simply isn't any need, and it is inefficient, to funnel everyone through their GP.

Taking a risk I would not take. We dont seem to have shortage of GP's. I can make an appointment for the same day never have to wait longer. There are 9 GP's working in the centre which covers only this area of town.

We dont have private insurance. Everyone is equal in our system.

ED209 · **#3300** by **ED209** » Feb 11, 2016 4:29 pm

mrjonno wrote:Not sure you can even see a private hospital specialist without a referral from your GP ( my insurance certainly won't pay for it without one but then it doesn't seem to pay for an awful lot bar hip replacements)

I needed a referral for a scan and that was paying cash, GP gave me a choice of private (not hugely expensive, done that evening, and personally by consultant rather than by sonographer) or nhs referral (non-urgent case so would have been a long wait for a less convenient time).

But then you can self-refer with your credit card for some things I'm sure - if you can afford to be a hypochrondriac, why would a private provider turn you away. There's also private GPs, that do something or other.

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