chairman bill wrote:Virgin says there were lots of seats, and that they offered Corbyn a free up-grade to First Class, because there were no seats, so clearly Corbyn is lying about there being no Standard Class seats.

GrahamH wrote:

chairman bill wrote:Virgin says there were lots of seats, and that they offered Corbyn a free up-grade to First Class, because there were no seats, so clearly Corbyn is lying about there being no Standard Class seats.

An excellent point. Virgin aren't going to give away upgrades to 1st if there are standard seats available, are they? They obviously realised early on that they had been caught out running a sub-standard service. That's when the spin started.

GrahamH wrote:Actually "ram packed" means something else entirely according to the urban dictionary.
I assume Corbyn meant "jam packed" which is a synonym for "crowded", "full", "busy".
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/jam-packed

Pebble wrote:

GrahamH wrote:Actually "ram packed" means something else entirely according to the urban dictionary.
I assume Corbyn meant "jam packed" which is a synonym for "crowded", "full", "busy".
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/jam-packed

Now does this mean yo can read his mind and that he merely mis-spoke (Clintonesque) or that your were unable to find any source that agreed with your 'translation' of ram packed, so have to put words in his mouth?

PS If the train wasn't busy, shouldn't he be consistent and complain about the impact on the enviornment of running half empty trains around the country?

Pebble wrote:Alternately - Corbyn had some specific requirements that were not readily met in standard class - like for instance sitting with his wife - that one we know of, but were there other requirements? Like a good angle for his film crew to show his best side etc? Who knows

Jeremy Corbyn has ruled out a coalition with the SNP as the campaign for the Labour leadership shifts to Scotland.

But in an article for the Daily Record on Thursday, Mr Corbyn accused the SNP of pursuing Conservative-style policies such as a benefits cap and low corporation tax, and of "relentlessly" attacking councils.

"Let me make it clear. I will welcome support for all or any of our policies from any other political groups or parties ... but I'm well aware that Labour and the SNP come from different traditions and have different goals.

"I don't see a party that welcomed (then Chancellor) George Osborne's corporation tax cuts, relentlessly attacked local government and is committed to a benefit cap as reliable allies for a radical Labour government.

He said the SNP Government had pursued a low tax agenda while the NHS and councils struggled under austerity, and Scotland lacked decent jobs and affordable housing.

He pledged to create a Scottish National Bank to deliver £20 billion investment in projects and small businesses, and backed Scottish Labour's plan for a publicly-owned railway and energy sector.

mrjonno wrote:Keep on hearing people use 'neoliberal', pretty sure what they really mean is capitalism.

GrahamH wrote:Ah, the plebs in standard class don't deserve to sit together, and definitely mustn't voice discontent about a ;lack of seats. Such luxuries are only for the wealthy! You must be pleased That mother with her kids knew her place and sat on the floor without protest. If she wanted to have seats with her kids she should have bought 1st class, or maybe just used the chauffer driven limo.

GrahamH wrote:

zoon wrote:

GrahamH wrote:It is a possible narrative, team Corbin plots to spin an attack on a train company. It's also possible that he was just travelling to Newcastle with his wife and a fly-on-the-wall documentary maker and walked the length of the off-peak train without finding two vacant seats. Finding himself at the end of the train and encountering fellow passengers in a similar situation he joins them, sitting on the floor until Virgin staff upgraded some other passengers to resolve the situation and save the company further embarasment.

I can see how the first story appeals to people attracted to the incompetent Corbyn idea. You can sahy he caught the wrong train, not peak! Schoolboy error! Then he was "caught out".
The other, normal person version, doesn't fit the caricature.

What if it was Smith? Just the same. Based on what we know default to the straightforward explanation and save the conspiracy gone wrong theory until some evidence of that comes to light, if it does.

Nothing wrong with your second, normal person, narrative, except that you've missed out the crucial bit: Corbyn and his aides record a video of Corbyn on the floor explicitly making the case for nationalisation, and attacking Virgin Trains for the overcrowding, and they then send that video to a national newspaper. Fine, take opportunities as they arise, I'm not saying the whole thing was planned beforehand. Planned or not, the leader of the Labour party attacked a large company in a national newspaper, carelessly overstating the situation on the train, and should not be surprised when that company sets out to discredit the video and is gleefully taken up by the Conservative sections of the press .

Edited to add: where in my posts have I suggested Corbyn planned the video in advance? I have been saying he carelessly made exaggerated claims to the national media, and now cannot complain when the national media accuses him of incompetent spin, which it was. More planning and less spur of the moment use of his position as leader of the Labour party for publicity might have avoided the carelessness.

Did he overstate the crowding? I guess that depends on how you choose to interpret "ram packed". What is your interpretation of that?

Was it "incompetent spin" or fair comment? I think the latter. Again it depends on your interpretation of "ram packed".

"more planning" would be "more spin", right? If it was pre-planned it's "spin", if it's calling it as he finds it it's not "spin".

You think the measure of politicians should be how good they are as spin doctors? Are you mrjonnno?

GrahamH wrote:Zoon, Getty back to me when you have an unambiguous definition of "ram packed" or specific claims by Corbyn contradicted by hard data from Virgin.

Jeremy Corbyn wrote:I don't see a party that welcomed George Osborne's corporation tax cuts, relentlessly attacked local government and is committed to a benefit cap as reliable allies for a radical Labour government.

zoon wrote:

GrahamH wrote:Zoon, Getty back to me when you have an unambiguous definition of "ram packed" or specific claims by Corbyn contradicted by hard data from Virgin.

Corbyn was using ambiguities to exaggerate, this is what is known as spin. That video of Corbyn on the floor was clearly intended to convey the message that he could not find a seat anywhere. It did convey that message very effectively, this was why it made the national news. The message was undermined by Virgin Trains' video, and now by Corbyn's own admission, that he had passed empty seats before making the video.