carl wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:Why do Christians tend to get their own scripture so wrong?

You do realize what I get out of the Bible is specific to me and me alone? I am not including you, but thank you for your concern.

Did you even read all of Oldskeptic's post or did you stop after the first sentence? Oldskeptic just demonstrated how you cherry picked the passages in Matthew, picking what you liked and ignoring what is devastating to your case (and thus why you got the scripture wrong) and you didn't even address it.

Can we determine from that that you accept that you get the Scripture wrong (as demonstrated by OldSkeptic) and that you defend this by saying that there is no "wrong" to get from Scripture since it's specific to you (read another way: how you are right or wrong in interpretation is not determined by the Scripture, but instead by you).

carl wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:Why do Christians tend to get their own scripture so wrong?

You do realize what I get out of the Bible is specific to me and me alone?

Then do everyone a favor and keep it to yourself, thanks!

Lowpro wrote:Can we determine from that that you accept that you get the Scripture wrong...

Yes. I can accept being wrong about a lot of things including the Bible. Anyone who can't accept being wrong about any one or more things, is either deluded or too prideful to admit fault.

In addition, our concept of being wrong is nothing more than brain chemistry, according to many atheists, so what's wrong with that? If our thoughts and concepts are nothing but brain chemistry, why make a big deal about anything? Why get angry, for example, knowing that anger is nothing more than brain chemistry along with the thing we're angry at.

Yes, we only get angry deliberately and so can stop it at will.

carl wrote:
In addition, our concept of being wrong is nothing more than brain chemistry, according to many atheists,

Errrrr, no. Except in matters of opinion, one is either right or wrong regardless of what happens with brain chemistry. It doesn't matter if your brain believes that the wall in front of you isn't solid, because in reality it is solid. Just like in reality, you seem to have a tentative grasp of your scriptures, at best.

so what's wrong with that? If our thoughts and concepts are nothing but brain chemistry, why make a big deal about anything? Why get angry, for example, knowing that anger is nothing more than brain chemistry along with the thing we're angry at.

Who's angry? Ah, poisoning the well, a favorite tactic of failed apologists across the world

You are on a forum that debates ideas. That's what we're here for. If you present half-baked ideas pulled from the Bible (or any other source), they will be destroyed. If you don't like that then I suggest you're on the wrong forum.

carl wrote:

Lowpro wrote:Can we determine from that that you accept that you get the Scripture wrong...

Yes. I can accept being wrong about a lot of things including the Bible. Anyone who can't accept being wrong about any one or more things, is either deluded or too prideful to admit fault.

In addition, our concept of being wrong is nothing more than brain chemistry, according to many atheists, so what's wrong with that? If our thoughts and concepts are nothing but brain chemistry, why make a big deal about anything? Why get angry, for example, knowing that anger is nothing more than brain chemistry along with the thing we're angry at.

Personally I liked to pretend that all my neurons are really tiny atheist pixies. They all have squirt guns containing different chemicals that they shoot at each other randomly. All of my seemingly connected experiences and emotions are simply patterns in the chaos.

It's odd how much of a different response I and Carl get for saying mostly the same things...

Zadocfish2 wrote:It's odd how much of a different response I and Carl get for saying mostly the same things...

It's a question of attitude and discoursive honesty.

It embarrasses some people when they are called out on cherry-picking what the bible says. Others not so much.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

carl wrote:
In addition, our concept of being wrong is nothing more than brain chemistry, according to many atheists,

Except in matters of opinion, one is either right or wrong regardless of what happens with brain chemistry.

Says who?

Our brain chemistry presumeably tells us (according to atheists) that something is right or wrong. But chemistry alone does not make it so, IMHO.

So let's prove lying is wrong. Sure, our brain chemistry tells us its disrespectful, dishonest, bad for society, etc. but wrong? Really?

Apart from what our brain chemistry tells us about lying being bad for us, we have nothing telling us its wrong.

Or am I missing that something else?

Now me personally, I know lying is wrong because it violates the moral Law of God, "You shall not give false testimony" but that law is just for me. For you without that law, what do you have except chemistry? Nothing.

Anything you might mention as to why lying is wrong can and will be shown as nothing more than chemistry.

carl wrote:

Lowpro wrote:Can we determine from that that you accept that you get the Scripture wrong...

Yes. I can accept being wrong about a lot of things including the Bible. Anyone who can't accept being wrong about any one or more things, is either deluded or too prideful to admit fault.

In addition, our concept of being wrong is nothing more than brain chemistry, according to many atheists, so what's wrong with that? If our thoughts and concepts are nothing but brain chemistry, why make a big deal about anything? Why get angry, for example, knowing that anger is nothing more than brain chemistry along with the thing we're angry at.

The second idea does not follow the first. It's nice that you accept humility with regard to the Bible and that its veracity is dependent on you. That's a big step.

But the second idea does not follow if we are discussing veracity so I assume you mean as a subjective morality (that's a loaded word I know). You're effectively asking "what's wrong with our brain chemistry" when you've just stated that brain chemistry is what determines what's right/wrong. That's a nonsensical statement.

carl wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

carl wrote:
Except in matters of opinion, one is either right or wrong regardless of what happens with brain chemistry.

Says who?

Our brain chemistry presumeably tells us (according to atheists) that something is right or wrong. But chemistry alone does not make it so, IMHO.

So let's prove lying is wrong. Sure, our brain chemistry tells us its disrespectful, dishonest, bad for society, etc. but wrong? Really?

Apart from what our brain chemistry tells us about lying being bad for us, we have nothing telling us its wrong.

Or am I missing that something else?

Now me personally, I know lying is wrong because it violates the moral Law of God, "You shall not give false testimony" but that law is just for me. For you without that law, what do you have except chemistry? Nothing.

Anything you might mention as to why lying is wrong can and will be shown as nothing more than chemistry.

Ah I saw this one coming. You're saying you've overcome your brain with the moral Law of God I see. In other words, if your brain failed and you were a vegetable, you would still know the moral Law of God. I suggest you put that to the test.

carl wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

carl wrote:
Except in matters of opinion, one is either right or wrong regardless of what happens with brain chemistry.

Says who?

Says SafeAsMilk. Maybe you could have figured that out if you hadn't fucked up the quote function. Were you confused that it might have been you that said it?

Our brain chemistry presumeably tells us (according to atheists) that something is right or wrong.

Where is that in The Atheists' Manual? I was under the impression that it was neural biologists telling us things like that.

But chemistry alone does not make it so, IMHO.

Says you and who else?

So let's prove lying is wrong. Sure, our brain chemistry tells us its disrespectful, dishonest, bad for society, etc. but wrong? Really?

Apart from what our brain chemistry tells us about lying being bad for us, we have nothing telling us its wrong.

Or am I missing that something else?

Besides any coherent point or semblance of rationality? No.

Now me personally, I know lying is wrong because it violates the moral Law of God, "You shall not give false testimony" but that law is just for me.

Isn't that special! Your god made a law just for you.

For you without that law, what do you have except chemistry? Nothing.

I have my pretend pixies that don't believe in your god, so there.

Anything you might mention as to why lying is wrong can and will be shown as nothing more than chemistry.

Well, in the end it all comes down to chemistry so that's not really shocking news.

So far, answering a question with another question but no direct answers proving lying is wrong.

Who says it's wrong?

carl wrote:So far, no direct answers proving lying is wrong.

Because there is none.

carl wrote:

[Reveal] Spoiler:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

carl wrote:Except in matters of opinion, one is either right or wrong regardless of what happens with brain chemistry.

Says who?

Our brain chemistry presumeably tells us (according to atheists) that something is right or wrong. But chemistry alone does not make it so, IMHO.

So let's prove lying is wrong. Sure, our brain chemistry tells us its disrespectful, dishonest, bad for society, etc. but wrong? Really?

Apart from what our brain chemistry tells us about lying being bad for us, we have nothing telling us its wrong.

Or am I missing that something else?

Now me personally, I know lying is wrong because it violates the moral Law of God, "You shall not give false testimony" but that law is just for me. For you without that law, what do you have except chemistry? Nothing.

Anything you might mention as to why lying is wrong can and will be shown as nothing more than chemistry.

I, on the other hand, require no such Bronze Age fable telling me if a thing is wrong or not. Having a pretty well developed sense of ethics, it's not hard to work out right from wrong at all, on my own.

Here's where you're full of shit, Carl: you're going to trot out this or that commandment and tell us that's how you tell right from wrong. At the very same time, you will casually ignore the dozens or hundreds of other laws your fave book o' fables lays out for you, but are just too strict, or you will judge them to be metaphorical, or justify ignoring them in any number of other ways we've seen Christians do since Christians have existed.

Cherry picking, Carl.

Full of shit.

Isn't the Job story about your "god" lying to someone?

carl wrote:So far, answering a question with another question but no direct answers proving lying is wrong.

That's because lying, in and of itself, isn't necessarily wrong. I was pretty sure that anyone who'd made it past adolescence was aware of this.

But of course, you're again here showing a failure to understand the English language. In your above example you mean 'wrong' as in 'bad'. What we were discussing was 'wrong' as in 'incorrect', as in your repeated misuse of the English language, and apparently your apprehension of your own scriptures.

carl wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:

carl wrote:
Except in matters of opinion, one is either right or wrong regardless of what happens with brain chemistry.

Says who?

Our brain chemistry presumeably tells us (according to atheists)

Are you sure you're thinking of atheists? Are you sure you aren't thinking of...nothing?

that something is right or wrong. But chemistry alone does not make it so, IMHO.

So let's prove lying is wrong. Sure, our brain chemistry tells us its disrespectful, dishonest, bad for society, etc. but wrong? Really?

The problem with living in a simplistic black and white world, carl, is that one makes trite statements like the above. Lying clearly isn't wrong in and of itself, as I mentioned. Someone asks me today, how am I? I say, "I'm doing good," I say, even though I'm under the weather and feel like crap. Don't want to bother them with it, and don't feel like having a conversation about being sick. I know in your world that's a mortal sin carl, but in the real world it isn't a problem. I'm not trying to deceive someone for personal gain, not trying to get out of trouble, not trying to screw anyone out of anything. Even a child knows when they're lying in a way that is harmful. But I guess you need the Lawz Of Gawd to tell you, huh carl?

Apart from what our brain chemistry tells us about lying being bad for us, we have nothing telling us its wrong.

Let's assume you're right. So what?

Or am I missing that something else?

Yes, as usual, you're missing quite a lot.

Now me personally, I know lying is wrong because it violates the moral Law of God, "You shall not give false testimony" but that law is just for me.

Killed any witches lately? Wear any clothes made of more than one fabric? Killed a child that cursed their parents? Killed any couples whose husband was cheating on them? Outcast people that had sex with their wives who were on the rag? Killed anyone suggesting worshipping a different god? Killed anyone of a different religion? Well I guess God's laws are just cherries to be picked for you!

For you without that law, what do you have except chemistry? Nothing.

Chemistry's pretty powerful. Most of us humans have these things called emotions: empathy, caring. We also have reason, the understanding and urge to treat others rightly because we want to be treated that way as well. Don't you have any of that? Do you really need God to tell you that murder is wrong? That deceiving people for personal gain is wrong? Can't figure it out for yourself?