Paula1 wrote:

Beatrice wrote:I have a very good relationship with my father, one that is based, on love and mutual respect. Why?

Oh, I see.....

I'm an atheist.

I think I might start a thread on "Atheists and dry-shampoo".

I'm an atheist and I have quite a crappy relationship with my dad, isn't that a coincidence? We're both atheists

I know, it's weird.... there doesn't seem to be a connection between the two, who would have thunk?

I have a solid relationship with my dad. Since my mom's death last summer, I've been accompanying him to the gym every morning, and he comes over to our house for dinner every evening. It's been lovely to spend this time with him, although it's come at a terrible price. I feel fortunate to have had two thoughtful, supportive and loving parents.

Dad happens to be a Christian on the liberal end of the spectrum. I've told him my views. If anything, those conversations have made us even closer.

My sister, on the other hand, is the only one of the four kids who's experienced parental issues. She's also the only child out of the 4 of us who has gone the traditional Christian route. Not that I'm hinting at a correlation or anything.

theidiot
Would you address this?
http://www.rational-skepticism.org/nontheism/relationship-with-your-father-t3129-180.html#p73572

The relationship with my father actually did influence me when it came to religion. My father failed completely as a father, and he was God in our family. When I finally escaped, I decided I didn't need another ignorant, self-centered, misogynistic patriarch to ruin my life. One was quite enough.

ElDiablo wrote:theidiot
Would you address this?
http://www.rational-skepticism.org/nontheism/relationship-with-your-father-t3129-180.html#p73572

theidiot has also conveniently ignored my question for him back on page 12. There seems to be a pattern of avoidance - not just to the questions being asked of him, but also his willingness to confront any of the negative aspects of religion. From what I've read in this thread, he seems to be trying to look for a single reason for atheism such as a bad relationship with ones father, and we are all "scapegoating" when we even entertain the concept of religions having any involvement in atrocities. Please correct me if I am wrong here, theidiot?

Keyser Soze wrote:

ElDiablo wrote:theidiot
Would you address this?
http://www.rational-skepticism.org/nontheism/relationship-with-your-father-t3129-180.html#p73572

theidiot has also conveniently ignored my question for him back on page 12. There seems to be a pattern of avoidance - not just to the questions being asked of him, but also his willingness to confront any of the negative aspects of religion. From what I've read in this thread, he seems to be trying to look for a single reason for atheism such as a bad relationship with ones father, and we are all "scapegoating" when we even entertain the concept of religions having any involvement in atrocities. Please correct me if I am wrong here, theidiot?

In theidiot's defense, he is the sole person on his side of the argument going up against several of us at a time throughout an entire 20+ page thread. His initial question did look like a classic hit and run but he has stuck it out and put some decent effort in trying to explain his position. It might all be a load of crap but you can't accuse him of not trying.

I must say, it's very noble of theidiot to spend his time informing us what a bunch of sad losers we all are, and how all our efforts to make the world just a slightly better place are doomed to failure because discussing atheism on the internet will not bring about the collapse of the Taliban.

It's such a pity he's got bugger all that's positive to say. Oh well, that's religion for you - always looking on the bleak and depressing side of life.

Relationship with my father is dandy >.<

I left the lutheran church 3 months ago, and hes still in it, although hes technically an atheist

(technically as in, doesnt believe in any magical beings or manbearpigs but still a member of the church)

theidiot wrote:I'm just looking to hear what sort of relationship anti-theist have with their fathers? I'm curious to know if there is some relationship between this and their anti-theism.

I'm not looking to hear from just any atheist, but rather by those who classify themselves as anti-theist, like Christopher Hitchens.

Edit: Thought I'm primarily concerned with anti-theist, I would also like to hear about the relationship of other atheist as well, especially those who share in the hostile view of religions of individuals like Dawkins, and Harris. I only ask that you mention how you feel towards religion, as well as how you feel towards your father.

I am not an anti-theist, just a good old-fashioned atheist. My father and I are so different that I cannot say we are very close, but our relationship is not bad. My husband is also an atheist (also not an anti-theist), and he has a very good relationship with his father, who incidentally is just like him, they are two peas in a pot. Neither of our fathers is religious.

purplerat wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:

ElDiablo wrote:theidiot
Would you address this?
http://www.rational-skepticism.org/nontheism/relationship-with-your-father-t3129-180.html#p73572

theidiot has also conveniently ignored my question for him back on page 12. There seems to be a pattern of avoidance - not just to the questions being asked of him, but also his willingness to confront any of the negative aspects of religion. From what I've read in this thread, he seems to be trying to look for a single reason for atheism such as a bad relationship with ones father, and we are all "scapegoating" when we even entertain the concept of religions having any involvement in atrocities. Please correct me if I am wrong here, theidiot?

In theidiot's defense, he is the sole person on his side of the argument going up against several of us at a time throughout an entire 20+ page thread. His initial question did look like a classic hit and run but he has stuck it out and put some decent effort in trying to explain his position. It might all be a load of crap but you can't accuse him of not trying.

I agree to a point. Definitely respect the fact that it's one vs. many. However, I stand by my interpretation of his position (allowing for him to correct me, of course). All of his arguments in this thread seem to be that atheism has "a reason", as opposed to the fact that atheists just have functioning bullshit detectors and don't believe unsupported assumptions rooted in superstition. Also, from this thread it appears that he is unwilling to accept any argument that is critical of religion in any way. I'm wondering if that's a result of his relationship with his parents

Keyser Soze wrote:

purplerat wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:

ElDiablo wrote:theidiot
Would you address this?
http://www.rational-skepticism.org/nontheism/relationship-with-your-father-t3129-180.html#p73572

theidiot has also conveniently ignored my question for him back on page 12. There seems to be a pattern of avoidance - not just to the questions being asked of him, but also his willingness to confront any of the negative aspects of religion. From what I've read in this thread, he seems to be trying to look for a single reason for atheism such as a bad relationship with ones father, and we are all "scapegoating" when we even entertain the concept of religions having any involvement in atrocities. Please correct me if I am wrong here, theidiot?

In theidiot's defense, he is the sole person on his side of the argument going up against several of us at a time throughout an entire 20+ page thread. His initial question did look like a classic hit and run but he has stuck it out and put some decent effort in trying to explain his position. It might all be a load of crap but you can't accuse him of not trying.

I agree to a point. Definitely respect the fact that it's one vs. many. However, I stand by my interpretation of his position (allowing for him to correct me, of course). All of his arguments in this thread seem to be that atheism has "a reason", as opposed to the fact that atheists just have functioning bullshit detectors and don't believe unsupported assumptions rooted in superstition. Also, from this thread it appears that he is unwilling to accept any argument that is critical of religion in any way. I'm wondering if that's a result of his relationship with his parents

I agree that all of his arguments are crap and I've said he's grasping at straws and trying to force reality to fit into his world view rather than vice versa. I'm just saying let's not jump on him for not answering all of our questions/arguments. Of course I'm saying that as somebody for whom he did provide a pretty lengthy response to .

Even though I'm a delusional, angry, scapegoating athiest, I can understand that he may not be able to reply to every post.

Maybe it's because I am so angry and scapegoating that I am not as understanding as the two of you

Keyser Soze wrote:Maybe it's because I am so angry and scapegoating that I am not as understanding as the two of you

Yes I guess it's because I have such a great relationship with my father that I am able to be so understanding and not scapegoat him.

theidiot wrote:...I only ask that you mention how you feel towards religion...

It's a mind-virus which at it's best holds our species back, and at it's worst, could destroy it.

It's got to go.

theidiot wrote:...as well as how you feel towards your father.

Fine. Great bloke.

ElDiablo wrote:Even though I'm a delusional, angry, scapegoating athiest, I can understand that he may not be able to reply to every post.

I'm not sure why a number of individuals here, speak of themselves as the victim. I never accused all atheist of being delusional, angry, and scapegoating. And I know next to nothing about you, to assume that about you.

I've repeated on several occasions, that I'm speaking of a certain type of atheist. If you don't feel you're the sort, then there's a good chance you're not.

The fact of the matter is, that whenever we have a particular group that provokes our anger, we create a context for scapegoating. Not that everybody whose angry is scapegoating, but rather the situation attracts those that do. Not all tea baggers are racist, some of them may even have legitimate concerns, but the group is still going to attract racist scapegoating elements, just because the groups are built on resentment.

theidiot wrote:

ElDiablo wrote:Even though I'm a delusional, angry, scapegoating athiest, I can understand that he may not be able to reply to every post.

I'm not sure why a number of individuals here, speak of themselves as the victim. I never accused all atheist of being delusional, angry, and scapegoating. And I know next to nothing about you, to assume that about you.

I've repeated on several occasions, that I'm speaking of a certain type of atheist. If you don't feel you're the sort, then there's a good chance you're not.

The fact of the matter is, that whenever we have a particular group that provokes our anger, we create a context for scapegoating. Not that everybody whose angry is scapegoating, but rather the situation attracts those that do. Not all tea baggers are racist, some of them may even have legitimate concerns, but the group is still going to attract racist scapegoating elements, just because the groups are built on resentment.

Your previous post about anti-theist scapegoating theism/theist do sound quite absolute. That is you make it sound like all anti-theist are using theism/theist as a scapegoat for some other source(s) of anger. Even when people such as myself have provide good rational reasons for being anti-theism you've tried quite hard to explain away our given reason for being anti-theist leaving the impression that you don't believe that reason and see us all as scapegoaters.

Are there some anti-theist who are scapegoating religion and their real anger is misguided? Yes probably. But there are enough legit reasons to be angry at religion that you don't need to worry too much about possible scapegoating. Your analogy to racism is false because there are no good reasons (or at least none that I can think of) to be angry at a race. Thus it's pretty safe to assume that people who are anti-[some race] are all scapegoating. The same goes for Nazis and Jews.

Yes you have been careful to not generalize all atheist, but you have seemingly gone out of your way to generalize all anti-theist.

theidiot wrote:I'm not sure why a number of individuals here, speak of themselves as the victim. I never accused all atheist of being delusional, angry, and scapegoating. And I know next to nothing about you, to assume that about you.

I've repeated on several occasions, that I'm speaking of a certain type of atheist. If you don't feel you're the sort, then there's a good chance you're not.

My comment was facetious.

You'll see in your quotes in my response to you that you paint athiests with a broad brush.
nontheism/relationship-with-your-father-t3129-180.html#p73572

The fact of the matter is, that whenever we have a particular group that provokes our anger, we create a context for scapegoating. Not that everybody whose angry is scapegoating, but rather the situation attracts those that do. Not all tea baggers are racist, some of them may even have legitimate concerns, but the group is still going to attract racist scapegoating elements, just because the groups are built on resentment.

There is no "fact of the matter" when you make such broad generalizations like you do here. A particluar group that provokes anger can provoke many other emotions too, including rationality, laughter, etc...

The goal of your original post was to show how anti-thiests on this board use religion as a scapegoat because they are angry and that somehow relates to a relationship with the father. You were hoping to show that the anti-thiest's stance against religion was based on emotional knee jerk reaction to some unrelated trauma or negative experience. I don't think that has panned out too well. You might want to use a smaller select group for a study - one that includes only "angry anti-thiests with father issues who enjoy uses the church as a scapegoat." I think you might get the results you are looking for.