kyrani99 wrote:

Fallible wrote:

Yeah, that's completely believable. Why on earth would you remember where you were and who was with you when you'd just experienced a premonition that helped you narrowly avoid death, and then witnessed a head-on car smash with multiple fatalities?

I didn't narrowly avoid death, I had enough time to pull over to the side of the road safely, slow my car down enough and then negotiate the gravel and bringing my car to a standstill when we heard the bang. It was in front of us but a way further down the road. I didn't actually see it happen. It was too far down the road (about 100 meters). We walked down, probably 30 to 40 cars down the road and saw the accident.

Gosh. Well that is strange, Kyrani, isn't it. Because when you first related the story, it went like this:

On one of my trips down the coast to the Snowy Mountains I had a strong premonition that I and the friends I had in my car with me, would be in grave danger if I continued to drive down the road any further. I felt a strong urgency to stop.

It was a two lane road and the side lane was soft gravel. I was in a stream of traffic traveling at 60Kms/hr. I managed to move off the road, brake enough and negotiate the gravel. It was a sudden action and my friends yelled. "Why in the hell did you do that?" because they were all jerked forward in their seats.

A few seconds later, before I could say anything, an oncoming car veered (maybe out of control) from the opposites side of the road and slammed head on into the car that was, while I had been in the stream of traffic, behind me. We saw it happen in front of us because by that time I was on the gravel, the car which had been behind me, had just passed my car. I had avoided a head-on collision. All those in the two cars involved were killed instantly. It was a horror scene. It was an awful feeling because they would not have died if I had not got out of the road, but my friends and I would have died so I had no option. I had to get out of the road.

I remember it because it was dramatic and more dramatic than other incidents where I had a forewarning of danger. I have had a number of occasions where I had forewarning. None were immediate, there was always at least minutes to spare but more often much more, hours and in some cases days.

And I should say that I don't know who died and even if anyone died. I only got that second hand from others that went near the cars and commented "looks like everyone in those two cars are dead" but were they? I had accepted what the person said but I didn't have any other information.

Gosh. Well that is strange, Kyrani, isn't it. Because when you first related the story, it went like this:

On one of my trips down the coast to the Snowy Mountains I had a strong premonition that I and the friends I had in my car with me, would be in grave danger if I continued to drive down the road any further. I felt a strong urgency to stop.

It was a two lane road and the side lane was soft gravel. I was in a stream of traffic traveling at 60Kms/hr. I managed to move off the road, brake enough and negotiate the gravel. It was a sudden action and my friends yelled. "Why in the hell did you do that?" because they were all jerked forward in their seats.

A few seconds later, before I could say anything, an oncoming car veered (maybe out of control) from the opposites side of the road and slammed head on into the car that was, while I had been in the stream of traffic, behind me. We saw it happen in front of us because by that time I was on the gravel, the car which had been behind me, had just passed my car. I had avoided a head-on collision. All those in the two cars involved were killed instantly. It was a horror scene. It was an awful feeling because they would not have died if I had not got out of the road, but my friends and I would have died so I had no option. I had to get out of the road.

I remember it because it was dramatic and more dramatic than other incidents where I had a forewarning of danger. I have had a number of occasions where I had forewarning. None were immediate, there was always at least minutes to spare but more often much more, hours and in some cases days.

Isn't it interesting how your 'true' story has changed so much since you first told it.

Seems like a suitable point to reiterate my question that, for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, has been passed over;

How do we differentiate this anecdote from fabrication or delusion? And, if we can't, what actual value does it have?

BlackBart wrote:Seems like a suitable point to reiterate my question that, for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, has been passed over;

How do we differentiate this anecdote from fabrication or delusion? And, if we can't, what actual value does it have?

In this particular case, it can quite easily be determined that it is a fabrication. But your point still stands.

BlackBart wrote:

kyrani99 wrote:

Agrippina wrote:I haven't had flu in over twenty years. Then yesterday I started feeling ill, and today with the chills and the body aches, temperature, thick head, hmmmm I wonder if someone's put a hex on me.

A hex is belief in the paranormal!

Do actually take everything you read on the Internet at face value?

You'd think the "hmmmm" would give it away, wouldn't you?

Shrunk wrote:

BlackBart wrote:Seems like a suitable point to reiterate my question that, for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, has been passed over;

How do we differentiate this anecdote from fabrication or delusion? And, if we can't, what actual value does it have?

In this particular case, it can quite easily be determined that it is a fabrication. But your point still stands.

Forget about the fabrication bit. I'm overwhelmed with awe at the ability of someone who's lived close on 7 decades to be able to recall a single event in such graphic detail. I've had a few horrific things happen in my lifetime. I can remember that the events occurred, some of the images are still in my head, but details to that degree. Wow! The harddrive in that brain must be seriously pressed for space. No wonder no new ideas can take hold.

Agrippina wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

BlackBart wrote:Seems like a suitable point to reiterate my question that, for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, has been passed over;

How do we differentiate this anecdote from fabrication or delusion? And, if we can't, what actual value does it have?

In this particular case, it can quite easily be determined that it is a fabrication. But your point still stands.

Forget about the fabrication bit. I'm overwhelmed with awe at the ability of someone who's lived close on 7 decades to be able to recall a single event in such graphic detail. I've had a few horrific things happen in my lifetime. I can remember that the events occurred, some of the images are still in my head, but details to that degree. Wow! The harddrive in that brain must be seriously pressed for space. No wonder no new ideas can take hold.

Bloody heck I am only 30 and if you asked what I had for dinner last week I would be confused and angry.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:

Agrippina wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

BlackBart wrote:Seems like a suitable point to reiterate my question that, for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, has been passed over;

How do we differentiate this anecdote from fabrication or delusion? And, if we can't, what actual value does it have?

In this particular case, it can quite easily be determined that it is a fabrication. But your point still stands.

Forget about the fabrication bit. I'm overwhelmed with awe at the ability of someone who's lived close on 7 decades to be able to recall a single event in such graphic detail. I've had a few horrific things happen in my lifetime. I can remember that the events occurred, some of the images are still in my head, but details to that degree. Wow! The harddrive in that brain must be seriously pressed for space. No wonder no new ideas can take hold.

Bloody heck I am only 30 and if you asked what I had for dinner last week I would be confused and angry.

Fuck me. Ask me what I had for dinner two days ago and I'd be seriously confused.

Saturday: Beef Rib, Cheddar Mash and Mixed Veg
Sunday: Pork Shoulder, Mash, Carrots & Broccoli
Monday: Ham Salad
Tuesday: Chorizo Lasagne and Broccoli
Wednesday: Hake with Leek and bacon and new potatoes and a tomato salsa.

WITCH WITCH BURN THE WITCH!

BlackBart wrote:Seems like a suitable point to reiterate my question that, for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, has been passed over;

How do we differentiate this anecdote from fabrication or delusion? And, if we can't, what actual value does it have?

Depending on the type of experience people may remember things selectively and may recall in total and not in sequence. Also what was impressionable at the time may also be remembered and yet not actual but I don't think you can call it fabrication or delusion. Language also makes some difference.

For example when I say "n front of us" I am thinking in Greek and also talking about what we saw when we went to have a look, as everyone else did. In proper sequence we heard the bang and then walked down and saw the cars that were involved.

But in my mind, when I remember it, I think of the premonition, then of turning off but as I do the images of the smashed cars immediately comes to mind. And I see images of what possibly happened in my mind. We didn't actually see the accident happening because we were too far away and there were too many cars blocking our view. We heard a loud bang and saw cars braking. We saw the smashed cars after the accident had happened. We saw a car from the other side of the road was over the medium line. It wasn't totally head on as in two cars in line head to head. The car on our side of the road was straight but one from the other side of the road was at a sharp angle. Everyone said he must have been out of control because he not only crossed the medium line, he was at a sharp angle. I had accepted this view at the time because it was logical. I should also say here I said "he" but it might have been a "she".

We didn't actually go and look into the cars to see the people. We accepted other people's opinions. I believed what was said at the time probably because the whole thing was horrifying so the stuff that was said made a huge impression on my mind. Now on thinking about it I can appreciated that the mental picture I had of them all dead may be wrong. Some at least may have recovered in hospital. I don't know. The speed limit was 60 km/hr but maybe the car from the other side was traveling faster. Again I don't know.

My friends were not expecting me to leave the traffic line but they didn't say anything until I was on the gravel,. They may not have been paying attention, maybe talking or reading etc. I had slowed enough not to roll the car but it was still bumpy when I got onto the gravel. Maybe the word sudden is not the right word in that it was not immediate but more unexpected. I didn't pull off the road in an instant. It took me probably 10 to 20 seconds to put my blinker on and lightly touch the brake to let the person behind know I was going to pull off. Then I negotiated my car onto the bitumen section of the side and started to brake for stopping, probably over another 20 seconds. There was plenty of room for the car behind me to pass me and many more after it. And only after I felt I was going slow enough did I go onto the gravel. So maybe about one minute till I was stopped.

It shows that for an anecdote we need to question the person further to bring out the event in more detail. In the case of recalling a distressing events, images come to mind, some of which may be impressions or based on what one has heard and not what one actually knows. I can see that when I first wrote it, I wrote from an emotional state. The events took place a long time ago but they still makes me shudder.

So in relating an experience it is good to have another party question the person until the events can be properly sequenced and tease out what is impression and what was actual. Also to appreciate that a person will have an emotional response, which will affect how they relate some experience and what they have associated in their mind.

Oh, give up, will you.

Shrunk wrote:

BlackBart wrote:Seems like a suitable point to reiterate my question that, for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, has been passed over;

How do we differentiate this anecdote from fabrication or delusion? And, if we can't, what actual value does it have?

In this particular case, it can quite easily be determined that it is a fabrication. But your point still stands.

Your suggestion of "fabrication" implies deceit. This is a value judgement on your part. You don't believe in the paranormal or at least say you don't and as a result you don't like me talking about experiences that involve paranormal elements so you see fit to try to attack me and slander me. It says something about you, not me.

And who do you think it says something about that a person presents a story with elements written as facts, and then later gives contradictory details or admits that they're perceptions which may or may not be true?

I have an excellent memory I can remember some, memorable events even as far back as 3yo.

Memory is a function of conscious being, and not some hard drive in my head /brain. Conscious being, while experiencing within the universe, is outside of the universe. So memory is, in a sense, paranormal activity.

kyrani99 wrote:Your suggestion of "fabrication" implies deceit. This is a value judgement on your part. You don't believe in the paranormal or at least say you don't and as a result you don't like me talking about experiences that involve paranormal elements so you see fit to try to attack me and slander me. It says something about you, not me.

No. Saying that you're obviously willing to make shit up in defence of your beliefs clearly says something about you.

People who don't believe in the paranormal simply don't have delusional beliefs in respect of the paranormal.

kyrani99 wrote:I have an excellent memory I can remember some, memorable events even as far back as 3yo.

Apparently you can neither remember what you wrote here on these forums a few weeks ago nor remember to use the quote function for what you said previously, to keep your stories remotely consistent.

kyrani99 wrote:Memory is a function of conscious being, and not some hard drive in my head /brain. Conscious being, while experiencing within the universe, is outside of the universe. So memory is, in a sense, paranormal activity.

Blah blah blah more made up bullshit.

kyrani99 wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

BlackBart wrote:Seems like a suitable point to reiterate my question that, for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, has been passed over;

How do we differentiate this anecdote from fabrication or delusion? And, if we can't, what actual value does it have?

In this particular case, it can quite easily be determined that it is a fabrication. But your point still stands.

Your suggestion of "fabrication" implies deceit.

Yes, it does.

This is a value judgement on your part.

No, it's based on the many contradictions and falsehood contained in your posts, and your responses when these are pointed out. It is a conclusion based on empirical evidence. But, of course, you wouldn't know anything about that.

This thread is amazing by the way. *rams popcorn into mouth*

My memory is also amazing I can remember things from before I was conceived. I get it wrong all the time and contradict myself every other word but I said it is amazing so it is.

kyrani99 wrote:I have an excellent memory

Well, we've just proven that is false. You couldn't even remember important details of a story you made up a few weeks ago, even with a written record that you could check. Keep undermining your own position. You're doing a great job of it.

kyrani99 wrote:For example when I say "n front of us" I am thinking in Greek and also talking about what we saw when we went to have a look, as everyone else did. In proper sequence we heard the bang and then walked down and saw the cars that were involved.

But what you wrote in the original version of the story was:

We saw it happen in front of us...