Colour

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Re: Colour

#821  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 5:38 pm

romansh wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:Yes, but you were accepting that grey strawberries look red, which is absurd.
Perhaps I should instead have challenged The_Metatron to prove that it is true that MOST people would see grey strawberries as red, but you did not do so. I can't believe it is true.
Also, I reject your claim that I could be the one with "defective" vision, because it is abnormal to see grey as red just because red is the expected colour. For that reason, I suspect that The_Met is being mischievous here.

Well I can see red ... and if I remember correctly someone explained why people do see red when the strawberry picture was originally posted.

What makes you think that someone posting an explanation is necessarily correct?
So the question arises your vision is different? If you really care why not set up a new post with a poll to see how many people see a tinge of red in the strawberries. As so far you are the only one claiming not to see red.

And as Metatron pointed out if the potion of picture is masked the illusion of redness goes. It's all in this thread earlier.

Just because The_Met. claims that many people suffer from a colour illusion that I do not share, does not make my vision the one that is somehow defective?
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Re: Colour

#822  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 5:40 pm

Met, please provide link(s) to evidence for the claimed colour illusion for strawberries, otherwise I will assume it was mischief on your part.
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Re: Colour

#823  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 17, 2017 5:41 pm

I note that romansh, The_Met and GrahamH all have axes to grind.
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Re: Colour

#824  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 5:53 pm

DavidMcC wrote:claims that many people suffer from a colour illusion that I do not share, does not make my vision the one that is somehow defective?


Given the publicity that image has had there some reason to conclude that your colour vision may be abnormal.
What is clear is that you have great difficulty with any ideas that don't fit with your intuitions. Not only are you not able to see what a lot of people see you suggest that those that see it have defective vision and that those who don't agree with you "have axes to grind". Grow up!
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Re: Colour

#825  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 6:04 pm

take a look

The internet is full of people with abnormal vision!
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Re: Colour

#826  Postby romansh » Aug 17, 2017 6:17 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
Just because The_Met. claims that many people suffer from a colour illusion that I do not share, does not make my vision the one that is somehow defective?

It might not be defective at all David. Perhaps 7 billion people experience this illusion it does not make yours defective. Your correct argument is simply you do not experience this illusion. This simply implies that your vision is different from all the people who do experience this illusion. Of the people who have commented on the illusion in this thread most seem to experience it.

And trust me I am not suffering from this illusion one iota.

Having said all that, while this illusion highlights certain aspects of the illusory nature of colour perception ... eg there are no grey photons coming from the picture on your monitor. So whatever the bluey grey component you might see it is done without red light. And even with the red pixels any grey you might perceive is not grey.

Can you just agree that there are no grey photons coming from the monitor? And in this sense it is an illusion?
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Re: Colour

#827  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 6:28 pm

romansh wrote:
Can you just agree that there are no grey photons coming from the monitor? And in this sense it is an illusion?


There are certainly no grey photons. There are red photons (& green & blue).
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Re: Colour

#828  Postby romansh » Aug 17, 2017 6:42 pm

GrahamH wrote:
romansh wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Can you just agree that there are no grey photons coming from the monitor? And in this sense it is an illusion?


There are certainly no grey photons. There are red photons (& green & blue).

I thought I did try to say that?

When David could only see a bluey grey on the strawberries ... there were no red photons.
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Re: Colour

#829  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 7:05 pm

romansh wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
romansh wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
Can you just agree that there are no grey photons coming from the monitor? And in this sense it is an illusion?


There are certainly no grey photons. There are red photons (& green & blue).

I thought I did try to say that?

When David could only see a bluey grey on the strawberries ... there were no red photons.


When David could only see a bluey grey on the strawberries ... there were red, green and blue photons but no red pixels (red phtons without . The only photons that are emitted from a TFT monitor are red,green and blue ones*.
There is no such thing as a grey (or white) photon.

* As a good approximation
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Re: Colour

#830  Postby romansh » Aug 17, 2017 7:13 pm

GrahamH wrote:
When David could only see a bluey grey on the strawberries ... there were red, green and blue photons but no red pixels. The only photons that are emitted from a TFT monitor are red,green and blue ones*.

OK I am missing something here. Where are the red photons coming from on the red strawberries? I was under the impression only blue and green pixels used to make the picture?

GrahamH wrote:There is no such thing as a grey (or white) photon.

You honestly thought I did not know this?

What about black ones? ;)
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Re: Colour

#831  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 7:45 pm

romansh wrote:
GrahamH wrote:7 B
When David could only see a bluey grey on the strawberries ... there were red, green and blue photons but no red pixels. The only photons that are emitted from a TFT monitor are red,green and blue ones*.

OK I am missing something here. Where are the red photons coming from on the red strawberries? I was under the impression only blue and green pixels used to make the picture?

GrahamH wrote:There is no such thing as a grey (or white) photon.

You honestly thought I did not know this?

What about black ones? ;)


Grey is a mix of R,G & B. I'm sure you know that. So blue-grey includes red photons. If there are lots more G & B photons than R from a pixel it isn't red.
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Re: Colour

#832  Postby romansh » Aug 17, 2017 7:56 pm

GrahamH wrote:
Grey is a mix of R,G & B. I'm sure you know that. So blue-grey includes red photons. If there are lots more G & B photons than R from a pixel it isn't red.

OK did the photo of the strawberries have red pixels?

If not where did the bluey grey come from that David described?

I understand normally to get grey we need RBG photons; and darker it is less of them.
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Re: Colour

#833  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 8:04 pm

romansh wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
Grey is a mix of R,G & B. I'm sure you know that. So blue-grey includes red photons. If there are lots more G & B photons than R from a pixel it isn't red.

OK did the photo of the strawberries have red pixels?

If not where did the bluey grey come from that David described?

I understand normally to get grey we need RBG photons; and darker it is less of them.


The pixels Are all mostly blue/green with a bit of red, so there are no 'red pixels' in the image but there are red photons.
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Re: Colour

#834  Postby romansh » Aug 17, 2017 8:28 pm

GrahamH wrote:
romansh wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
Grey is a mix of R,G & B. I'm sure you know that. So blue-grey includes red photons. If there are lots more G & B photons than R from a pixel it isn't red.

OK did the photo of the strawberries have red pixels?

If not where did the bluey grey come from that David described?

I understand normally to get grey we need RBG photons; and darker it is less of them.


The pixels Are all mostly blue/green with a bit of red, so there are no 'red pixels' in the image but there are red photons.

OK where are the red photons coming from? Extraneous sources?

edit the light sources are not perfectly monochromatic?
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Re: Colour

#835  Postby GrahamH » Aug 17, 2017 9:31 pm

romansh wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
romansh wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
Grey is a mix of R,G & B. I'm sure you know that. So blue-grey includes red photons. If there are lots more G & B photons than R from a pixel it isn't red.

OK did the photo of the strawberries have red pixels?

If not where did the bluey grey come from that David described?

I understand normally to get grey we need RBG photons; and darker it is less of them.


The pixels Are all mostly blue/green with a bit of red, so there are no 'red pixels' in the image but there are red photons.

OK where are the red photons coming from? Extraneous sources?

edit the light sources are not perfectly monochromatic?

From the 'blue-grey' pixels of course. You can't make grey without red photons.

BTW the light sources may not be perfectly monochromatic. For most TFT displays it will be white LEDs or electroluminescent lighting which are far from monochromatic shining though bandpass filters for RG & B that are tens of nm wide.
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Re: Colour

#836  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 18, 2017 11:22 am

I doubt that an illusory red would even require red photons, so this discussion may be missing the point.
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Re: Colour

#837  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 18, 2017 11:29 am

"Can you just agree that there are no grey photons coming from the monitor? And in this sense it is an illusion?

I did not say this, even though my username appears on it. It must have been faked by romansh. Disgusting. I might report that to the mods. Seriously. I'm sure they must draw the line somewhere.
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Re: Colour

#838  Postby GrahamH » Aug 18, 2017 11:36 am

DavidMcC wrote:
"Can you just agree that there are no grey photons coming from the monitor? And in this sense it is an illusion?

I did not say this, even though my username appears on it. It must have been faked by romansh. Disgusting. I might report that to the mods. Seriously. I'm sure they must draw the line somewhere.


Don't be a a paranoid arse David.
It looks like an inadvertent error with quote tags in my post since it does not appear in Romansh's post that I quoted and I see extra [/quote] tags. He legitimately quoted you in his post. It seems I failed to delete your quote opening tag.

If you just followed the quote links back that should have been obvious.
I have corrected my post.
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Re: Colour

#839  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 18, 2017 11:48 am

Incorrect, Graham. I think you'll find that those words first appeared in romansh's deliberate misquote, not in my actual post that he claimed to be quoting.
I don't see the point of this side-track, unless it's just yet another attempted provocation, so I will try not to waste any more time on it, OK.
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Re: Colour

#840  Postby DavidMcC » Aug 18, 2017 11:53 am

I suppose I shouldn't expect better from the Philosophy forum, where any old garbage goes.
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