That was 2016 though I believe. Hunt is nothing if not a pathetic creepy fuck who will do what he is told.

newolder wrote:Something seems to have gone awry with the various shenanigans. First, top tory boys leave their posts, Spanky attacks NATO and new secretary Hunt will ask for a people's vote. I don't know what is occurring but it's surely interesting times in which we live. Hunt video @ https://twitter.com/peoplesvote_uk/stat ... 4908824577

That was his position in 2016. I doubt he still supports another vote now.

Ah, my mistake. Carry on...

So Brexit visits and criticises the Checkers Brexit Plan. If we follow that we there will be no UK/US trade deal says Trump.


What is Trump's interest? He want's a trade Deal with a weak UK that is as beneficial as possible to the US and Trump. He might prefer that we get a bad deal with the EU, that EU imports become too expensive so that US exporters can benefit.

Is this "the art of the deal" cunning plan or Trump buffoonery?


If there is a glimmer of sense in that then we should do the opposite of what Trump suggests.

GrahamH wrote:Is this "the art of the deal" cunning plan or Trump buffoonery?

I think so, too, but I want this to be more complicated. I want it to be more complicated than rocket science, so as to justify expending this many words on it. Why are we supposed to care? Who do we think is being influenced by Trump? Besides Trump, that is.

Ooh lets vote for Brexit or we will get TTIP.

I think people on the so called 'left' who voted on that basis are actually a lower form of pond life than the racists and fascists on the right, at least they are open about what they are.

Cito di Pense wrote:

GrahamH wrote:Is this "the art of the deal" cunning plan or Trump buffoonery?

I think so, too, but I want this to be more complicated. I want it to be more complicated than rocket science, so as to justify expending this many words on it. Why are we supposed to care? Who do we think is being influenced by Trump? Besides Trump, that is.

Boris Johnson might be influenced a little. Some of those poor MPs seemed to take interest in what Trump said. The turkeys got excited when the Farmer said Christmas should come earlier this year.
You want it to be more complicated? I think you can make it as complicated as you like.

ronmcd wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

minininja wrote:Ooh and there've been a couple more resignations too. Chris Green and Conor Burns, not really sure who they are but it's starting to feel like a pack of dominoes tumbling over. May is toast.

Or Brexit is toast. It's not as if there is anyone with an actual plan that could get elected as leader/PM and deliver a Brexit for everyone, is there?
Granted there are a few who might be prepared to actually sail the good ship Britannia over the edge, but I'm not sure the part of the parliament will let that happen. Isn't May still the best shot at leaving EU membership, the least bad option?

Or are we heading for a general election by Christmas?

Leavers want no free movement, no European legal jurisdiction, no restrictions on other trade deals. Those things wont happen in conjunction with tariff free trade in goods or services. So any PM, May or otherwise, will either take us out of the EU almost entirely, hard borders, tariffs, chaos - or will be forced into a Norway type situation of effectively being still in but without the ability to set or vote on the rules of the club.

Those are currently the two options. The second is my choice. We will end up with the first.

IMO.

We're fucked. There's no time to be unfucked.

There's no option one due to the NI border problem which can only be resolved by not leaving the EU - which btw, this information was known for the last couple of decades but never brought up during the campaign. All the remainers side had to do with a bus was paint "Do you want terrorism back on the streets of the uk?" on the side.

What worries me more is that nobody seemed to realise the NI issue until fairly recently or they did realise it, and that was factored into this which would mean they all knew we weren't leaving.

Everybody has realised it from the beginning but it is the elephant in the room that the Brexiteers do everything to ignore.
In fact there are two elephants in the room, the other is the EU. The Brexiteers are under the illusion that the EU will accept any plan THEY decide on which of course is about as far from reality than any one can get.

Scot Dutchy wrote: The Brexiteers are under the illusion that the EU will accept any plan THEY decide on which of course is about as far from reality than any one can get.

Or the opposite might be true. They know the EU will reject any plan they put forward, which gives them the justification they need for a hard brexit.

Sendraks wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote: The Brexiteers are under the illusion that the EU will accept any plan THEY decide on which of course is about as far from reality than any one can get.

Or the opposite might be true. They know the EU will reject any plan they put forward, which gives them the justification they need for a hard brexit.

It is not in the EU's benefit to reject all proposals out of hand.

Sendraks wrote:

Cito di Pense wrote:What is it to be 'socially conservative'?

Example would be Rees-Mogg's stance on abortion or marriage equality or trans people. People's attitudes on such things don't change as they get older.

Cito di Pense wrote: I don't think the process is simply the business of getting rid of politicians whose sentiments or public pronouncements offend us.

I wasn't aware there was such a business. Politicians fade out of fashion as the views of the public change and where they are so at odds with the main parties, they no longer have a platform to support them.

Maybe this is the world we get after having a generation of "baby boomers" who got everything either free or really cheap and are so self entitled they can't bare to see others getting the same?

ronmcd wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

minininja wrote:Ooh and there've been a couple more resignations too. Chris Green and Conor Burns, not really sure who they are but it's starting to feel like a pack of dominoes tumbling over. May is toast.

Or Brexit is toast. It's not as if there is anyone with an actual plan that could get elected as leader/PM and deliver a Brexit for everyone, is there?
Granted there are a few who might be prepared to actually sail the good ship Britannia over the edge, but I'm not sure the part of the parliament will let that happen. Isn't May still the best shot at leaving EU membership, the least bad option?

Or are we heading for a general election by Christmas?

Leavers want no free movement, no European legal jurisdiction, no restrictions on other trade deals. Those things wont happen in conjunction with tariff free trade in goods or services. So any PM, May or otherwise, will either take us out of the EU almost entirely, hard borders, tariffs, chaos - or will be forced into a Norway type situation of effectively being still in but without the ability to set or vote on the rules of the club.

Those are currently the two options. The second is my choice. We will end up with the first.

IMO.

We're fucked. There's no time to be unfucked.

I think you are right, but still there are those pointing out that these differences cannot be resolved, that the UK will never be able to agree a position, let alone get the 27 to accept it and that the only way ahead is to put the three options to the people.

Justine Greening has joined a growing number of MPs calling for a second referendum after declaring Theresa May‘s Chequers deal a “fudge”. Calling the current government plan the “worst of both worlds”, she advocated for giving the final decision back to the people in an article for the Times. The former minister is the most prominent Tory MP to back what has been branded a “people’s vote” – with around 100 MPs now publicly supporting it. Ms Greening told Radio 4’s Today programme: “The reality is Parliament is now stalemated. Whatever the proposal on the table, there will be MPs who vote it down. But Britain needs to find a route forward.”

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/justi ... eferendum/

a) Just walk away with no deal
b) Compromise
c) Don't leave

The following article is worth a read

The Brexiteers are right that this is a terrible proposal – but it’s entirely their fault

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ ... eir-fault/

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is not in the EU's benefit to reject all proposals out of hand.

I know, I've said that often enough.

GrahamH wrote:

a) Just walk away with no deal
b) Compromise
c) Don't leave

The first two won't work because of NI so aren't options. The deal between Ireland and NI has to be identical which means trade has to be exactly the same meaning we have to stay in. A "compromise" would mean keeping the trade deal we have which means open border as far as I understand it so we could pretend to leave but actually wouldn't.

Anyone who doesn't give a rats ass about NI being part of the UK can fuck off and some Brexiters don't care about NI - this is how fucking thick they are - they want the UK to be out of the EU but are quite happy to fuck up the UK.

I suggest a new strategy, Artoo - expel "England" out of Europe. Scotland, Wales and NI become the new UK and there's a wall built along their borders to it. Anyone that wants to stay in the new "England" must register to leave the UK and get themselves a blue passport. If there aren't sufficient numbers that register, nothing happens and we go back to normal.

Teague wrote:

GrahamH wrote:

a) Just walk away with no deal
b) Compromise
c) Don't leave

The first two won't work because of NI so aren't options. The deal between Ireland and NI has to be identical which means trade has to be exactly the same meaning we have to stay in. A "compromise" would mean keeping the trade deal we have which means open border as far as I understand it so we could pretend to leave but actually wouldn't.

Anyone who doesn't give a rats ass about NI being part of the UK can fuck off and some Brexiters don't care about NI - this is how fucking thick they are - they want the UK to be out of the EU but are quite happy to fuck up the UK.

I suggest a new plan, Artoo - expel "England" out of Europe. Scotland, Wales and NI become the new UK and there's a wall built along their borders to it. Anyone that wants to stay in the new "England" must register to leave the UK and get themselves a blue passport. If there aren't sufficient numbers that register, nothing happens and we go back to normal.

Well, I just listed the top three options that are most publicly argued for. There are plenty of people that call for the hardest of hard Brexits reverting to WTO rules.


It seems you are "quite happy to fuck up the UK".


Maybe a second referendum by region would allow Scotland to remain, some part of England to leave and so on. If Brexit means broken UK why not go all the way?

Yup, the problem with England leaving and the rest of UK staying a) together and b) in EU, is England imploding also implodes the rest of us. And the Republic too.

FFS you both read that as NOT a joke?

You guys need to take a step back.

Teague wrote:FFS you both read that as NOT a joke?

You guys need to take a step back.

You should take the replies in the same spirit as your post.