nealadams wrote:

New postby Just A Theory » Dec 06, 2011 6:22 pm

nealadams wrote:
(sigh) Gentlemen (and ladies) Subduction is a GRAVITY-driven process. NOT that the subducting plate is HEAVIER than the asthenosphere,....WHICH is WHERE IT COMES FROMMMMMmmm, ,..at all but, it is more SOLID,.. than the DUCTILE asthenosphere. STIFFER,.... So the DOWNHILL slide FROM THE RIFT''S,.. force, added to the stiffness,..DRIVES the subducting plate into an asthenosphere that purchase was made into 60 MYA as the Australian plate drove upward shattering the Indonesian plate above it.
Best Regards
Neal Adams



Subduction is absolutely not driven by gravity. The driving force is convective currents generated by the heat of the Earth's core.

(sigh) Let us review CONVECTION in a simple lab experiment.
Water is put in a glass beaker or a Pan, and the pan/beaker on a fire.
Let's clarify: Between the core and crust is first the MANTLE,.. then the upper portion of the MANTLE , we call the asthenosphere, which, we are told is LESS DENSE than the Mantle and DUCTILE (from the rising of,...Not 'heat" Because as we know, heat does not "RISE" but molecules. HEATED, RISE. So GASES RISE, making the Asthenosphere DUCTILE.
Up higher these super heated gasses collect under the crust. Scientists tell us that only 4% of the Asthenosphere is LIQUID, and MOST of that is under the rifts,...because the RIFTS are HIGHER than the rest of the ocean floor! (Thinner, younger and pushed up by the super-heated gases.)

Back to our lab experiment. The "FLAME" heats the water, the molecules rush around and RISE to the TOP of the water. Some fly off as steam,..others cool and therefor drop down in a process we call 'convection' to heat up and rise again.
Now we will replace the Beaker or Pot with a PRESSURE COOKER, with a sealed LID. The lid holds the HEATED molecules IN,.. and they do NOT go down,.. they collect at the TOP,.. which is the HOTTEST area. ) Unless we turn the flame up.
On PRESSURE COOKERS there is a relief valve that lets super hot gases out,....not unlike RIFTS!
This is what Earth is, for want of a better, more elitist phrase, a Pressure Cooker! There is NO Bunsen burner under the asthenosphere, which is, in fact cooler. The Super-Heated Gases rise from the Core, through the mantle,(Because that is the only way to go....UP) and through the asthenosphere and into the liquid. molten Basalt collected under the RIFTS,...and there it stays.
This is the Physics of it, and this is how convection works,...and doesn't work.
There are NO convectine currents moving continental plates around, according to Physics FACT!

GRAVITY always works to bring things down,.. no matter how shallow the slant,.. and the GREATEST PRESSURE is at the bottom-most thinest area. Mostly it makes troughs. At the Ring of Fire, because of Australia, it subducts.
Best Regards
Neal Adams

sathearn wrote:
I agree with Weaver's statements which precede and follow Florian's. However, Florian's questions are highly apropos of some statements that have been made on this forum (though I don't recall authorship offhand) to the effect that expanding Earth proponents must now "put up or shut up" in the wake of this study, and to others which express an uncritical attitude toward the calculated error margins. These questions are highly relevant to the question of the study's validity.

sathearn wrote:

Weaver wrote:

Florian wrote:

Did you read Wu's paper carefully?
What stations did they use to make the measurement? all? a subset? what guided their choice? Is their choice adapted to measure a growth? What kind of growth do they expect? homogenous? heterogenous? by bulging? Why? Was vertical displacements separated from horizontal displacements in the data treatment? Why? What model was used to model horizontal displacement? Why? Is the methodology appropriate to measure a growth?
These are the questions you should answer before jumping to conclusions.

What conclusions do you think I've jumped to? Wu et al were the ones who did the work - the measurements and error bars were theirs, not mine.

I agree with Weaver's statements which precede and follow Florian's. However, Florian's questions are highly apropos of some statements that have been made on this forum (though I don't recall authorship offhand) to the effect that expanding Earth proponents must now "put up or shut up" in the wake of this study, and to others which express an uncritical attitude toward the calculated error margins. These questions are highly relevant to the question of the study's validity.

nealadams wrote:
(sigh) Let us review CONVECTION in a simple lab experiment.
Water is put in a glass beaker or a Pan, and the pan/beaker on a fire.
Let's clarify: Between the core and crust is first the MANTLE,.. then the upper portion of the MANTLE , we call the asthenosphere, which, we are told is LESS DENSE than the Mantle and DUCTILE (from the rising of,...Not 'heat" Because as we know, heat does not "RISE" but molecules. HEATED, RISE. So GASES RISE, making the Asthenosphere DUCTILE.
Up higher these super heated gasses collect under the crust. Scientists tell us that only 4% of the Asthenosphere is LIQUID, and MOST of that is under the rifts,...because the RIFTS are HIGHER than the rest of the ocean floor! (Thinner, younger and pushed up by the super-heated gases.)

Back to our lab experiment. The "FLAME" heats the water, the molecules rush around and RISE to the TOP of the water. Some fly off as steam,..others cool and therefor drop down in a process we call 'convection' to heat up and rise again.
Now we will replace the Beaker or Pot with a PRESSURE COOKER, with a sealed LID. The lid holds the HEATED molecules IN,.. and they do NOT go down,.. they collect at the TOP,.. which is the HOTTEST area. ) Unless we turn the flame up.
On PRESSURE COOKERS there is a relief valve that lets super hot gases out,....not unlike RIFTS!
This is what Earth is, for want of a better, more elitist phrase, a Pressure Cooker! There is NO Bunsen burner under the asthenosphere, which is, in fact cooler. The Super-Heated Gases rise from the Core, through the mantle,(Because that is the only way to go....UP) and through the asthenosphere and into the liquid. molten Basalt collected under the RIFTS,...and there it stays.
This is the Physics of it, and this is how convection works,...and doesn't work.
There are NO convectine currents moving continental plates around, according to Physics FACT!

GRAVITY always works to bring things down,.. no matter how shallow the slant,.. and the GREATEST PRESSURE is at the bottom-most thinest area. Mostly it makes troughs. At the Ring of Fire, because of Australia, it subducts.
Best Regards
Neal Adams

Just A Theory wrote:...you have completely misunderstood the effects that are occurring.

1. THWOTH @ Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere
2. THWOTH @ Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere
3. THWOTH @ Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere
4. THWOTH @ Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere
5. THWOTH @ Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere
6. What software do you use for your modelling?

nealadams wrote:Gents,
The good things about "good" science, properly applied always works. "CONVECTION" always works, and no amount of barking or nay-saying or fudging changes that.

Wu's study and results as you all discuss has all the Earmarks of POOR SCIENCE! Using known and studied science with "NEW" results. Simple conclusion with NO details of changing details,..Uplift, decent. Rising Mountains in major areas of the world, The North pole, virtually UNRECORDABLE, Antarctica, WORSE! Recording devices around only the coast, The oceanic crust TWO THIRDS of the Earth!. ( MOST of Africa, South America, and Asia. )

Best Regards
Neal Adams

On one breath Science tells us so much of the world is unexplored. In the second breath they say they can calculate the Radius of Earth AND all the other methodologies that have given their CONCLUSIVE RESULTS are WRONG,,...and NOW, they are right. AND tomorrow?

35 years of Geology's studies and personal private careful calculated removal of subducted surface of the last 60 Million Years with reference to the Geological communities calculated crustal spread figures will give a reasonably intelligent person the current Radius increase on average of the whole Earth, today. THIS is dependable information, based on DECADES of work, by hundreds of Professional Geologists with real progressive supportable and double and triple checked results.
PERFECT?
Nothing's perfect.
Compared to Wu?
Much, much, much better.

nealadams wrote:Thwoth . The continental plates move in nearly STRAIGHT LINES, back to their origin point on the EarlIER Earth. On a GLOBE it's easier to see and follow (Visually) the direction of the Isochrons, the going outward backward in time crack separation in the oceanic floor, Fans and such that show and define direction. These are like sidewalk pavement squares that get bigger as they go out from their origin point. and show the spread of the Oceans.
So, there is NO WINDING per se,..THOUGH some feel there is a bit of a spiraling and twisting. I think it's merely Rifts opening in other direction from previous rifts. It's like a story book, or tracks in the woods. One just follows them backward.
For Animation I use Cinema 4-D and Maya and several warp programs. to track the North and South Poles and stretched and angled tags.

Gents and Ladies
I'm here to discuss Science and the Growing Earth-Growing Universe.

I held forth on the very, very simple process of CONVECTION! What could be simpler. When I read the responses I was forced to realize Everyone here had no such agenda as I. When simple convection cant be presented factually without this sort of uncivilized unscientific uproar, It is clear that my visit is done. I can't say it's been pleasant, it has not,.. and so I bid you a fond FONDUE.
I'll be taking my light with me. It's the only one on.
Best Regards
Neal Adams.

Anytime someone wants to have a civilized pleasant Scientific discussion, I am the easiest person to find on the internet.

Onyx8 wrote:Awwww, you broke it. Brainman's gonna be pissed.

Bet it comes back though.

Light Storm wrote:Re: Asinine Responses

Some of us are intrigued with the empirical evidence of the Expanding Earth. While I only speak for myself, when I keep asking questions, I would prefer answers I couldn't fertilize my lawn with.

Neal; There is a very simple way to prove physical evidence for a 'Growing Earth'. Verify an increasing gravity over the past 100 years. I believe those gravity benches can see variations in gravitational changes to the 6th or 7th decimal place. If the Earth is increasing in 'mass' opposed to 'volume' there should be an upward trend in gravitational changes.

Thanks

lucek wrote:OK LS, do you realize you are defending the position that convection is driven by gas.

nealadams wrote:Thwoth . The continental plates move in nearly STRAIGHT LINES,

back to their origin point on the EarlIER Earth. On a GLOBE it's easier to see and follow (Visually)

the direction of the Isochrons,

the going outward backward

in time crack

separation in the oceanic floor,

Fans and such that show and define direction.

These are like sidewalk pavement squares that get bigger as they go out from their origin point. and show the spread of the Oceans.

So, there is NO WINDING per se,..THOUGH some feel there is a bit of a spiraling and twisting.

I think it's merely Rifts opening in other direction from previous rifts.

It's like a story book, or tracks in the woods. One just follows them backward.

For Animation I use Cinema 4-D and Maya and several warp programs. to track the North and South Poles and stretched and angled tags.

Gents and Ladies
I'm here to discuss Science and the Growing Earth-Growing Universe.

I held forth on the very, very simple process of CONVECTION! What could be simpler. When I read the responses I was forced to realize Everyone here had no such agenda as I.

When simple convection cant be presented factually without this sort of uncivilized unscientific uproar, It is clear that my visit is done.

I can't say it's been pleasant, it has not,.. and so I bid you a fond FONDUE.

I'll be taking my light with me. It's the only one on.
Best Regards
Neal Adams.

Anytime someone wants to have a civilized pleasant Scientific discussion, I am the easiest person to find on the internet.