A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

jamest · #1 by **jamest** » Feb 24, 2018 12:00 am

My wandering mind leads me all over the place, including [now] to this thought: that there are more ways than one to pinpoint a Christ.

... I mean, let's leave out the 'physical evidence' of miracles, which no doubt most of you here would consider bullshit anyway. David Blaine stuff, or whatever, if not outright lies.

I'm talking about the signs of a Christ in a persona? What then would you expect, devoid of the 'physical magic'? Serious question. Honest guv'.

I mean, you obviously have to be open-minded in this thread and therefore retract any surety in your physicalist beliefs, but this is the philosophy forum so what the hell.

Beyond physical miracles, what would you expect of the The Christ? This is a genuine question, so spare me the BS. I'm so tired of the BS.

SafeAsMilk · #2 by **SafeAsMilk** » Feb 24, 2018 12:14 am

For someone who's tired of BS, you sure do write a lot of it. Honest, gov.

How about you get to saying something meaningful in one of those other threads you've started and quickly abandoned in the last few weeks? You didn't say anything to clarify anything claimed in those OP's either.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect anything in a Christ persona, because I don't have any reason to think the whole thing isn't entirely made up. Also known as BS.

jamest · #3 by **jamest** » Feb 24, 2018 12:18 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:For someone who's tired of BS, you sure do write a lot of it. Honest, gov.

How about you get to saying something meaningful in one of those other threads you've started and quickly abandoned in the last few weeks? You didn't say anything to clarify anything claimed in those OP's either.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect anything in a Christ persona, because I don't have any reason to think the whole thing isn't entirely made up. Also known as BS.

I'm not interested in your metaphysical politics here. I'm asking you to THINK about what you would expect to see in the persona of a Christ. If you cannot be arsed contributing to that extent, then take a fucking long walk. Enjoy the scenery.

SafeAsMilk · #4 by **SafeAsMilk** » Feb 24, 2018 12:27 am

jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:For someone who's tired of BS, you sure do write a lot of it. Honest, gov.

How about you get to saying something meaningful in one of those other threads you've started and quickly abandoned in the last few weeks? You didn't say anything to clarify anything claimed in those OP's either.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect anything in a Christ persona, because I don't have any reason to think the whole thing isn't entirely made up. Also known as BS.

I'm not interested in your metaphysical politics here. I'm asking you to THINK about what you would expect to see in the persona of a Christ. If you cannot be arsed contributing to that extent, then take a fucking long walk. Enjoy the scenery.

I know, you're only interested in your metaphysical politics. This isn't a creative writing class, if you want anybody to "think about what you would expect to see in the persona of a Christ", then say something meaningful about it first because as it stands, it doesn't mean anything. You may as well be asking "What would you expect a purple garbage can to want for labor day dinner?" It's pure BS.

jamest · #5 by **jamest** » Feb 24, 2018 12:37 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:
jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:For someone who's tired of BS, you sure do write a lot of it. Honest, gov.

How about you get to saying something meaningful in one of those other threads you've started and quickly abandoned in the last few weeks? You didn't say anything to clarify anything claimed in those OP's either.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect anything in a Christ persona, because I don't have any reason to think the whole thing isn't entirely made up. Also known as BS.

I'm not interested in your metaphysical politics here. I'm asking you to THINK about what you would expect to see in the persona of a Christ. If you cannot be arsed contributing to that extent, then take a fucking long walk. Enjoy the scenery.

I know, you're only interested in your metaphysical politics. This isn't a creative writing class, if you want anybody to "think about what you would expect to see in the persona of a Christ", then say something meaningful about it first because as it stands, it doesn't mean anything. You may as well be asking "What would you expect a purple garbage can to want for labor day dinner?" It's pure BS.

One doesn't have to choose to be a fucking dick all of their life. That's not integral to the FUA. You know what a persona is. Spare me the bollocks, I'm not interested. Really.

I've been around for two decades. Characters like you are pennies, even if I have empathy for them. I'm looking for pounds/dollars, so to speak. Just join the popcorn queue please. I'll give you a voucher as the popcorn lady loves me and has given me some.

Thommo · #6 by **Thommo** » Feb 24, 2018 12:40 am

What I expect of The Christ is that he would have to be the living incarnation of God, as described in the Jehovan tradition - that is all knowing, all powerful, all wise, all merciful, all vengeful and more.

The Jesus described in the holy texts poured miracles out like candy for all and sundry. When doubting Thomas asked for proof, he provided everything that was required to show him that his claims were true.

For my own part, if someone I knew well had been dead and entombed for a few days, then got up and started walking about and letting me put my hand inside his gaping wounds, then I'd certainly take his claims of divinity seriously.

SafeAsMilk · #7 by **SafeAsMilk** » Feb 24, 2018 12:45 am

jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
jamest wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:For someone who's tired of BS, you sure do write a lot of it. Honest, gov.

How about you get to saying something meaningful in one of those other threads you've started and quickly abandoned in the last few weeks? You didn't say anything to clarify anything claimed in those OP's either.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect anything in a Christ persona, because I don't have any reason to think the whole thing isn't entirely made up. Also known as BS.

I'm not interested in your metaphysical politics here. I'm asking you to THINK about what you would expect to see in the persona of a Christ. If you cannot be arsed contributing to that extent, then take a fucking long walk. Enjoy the scenery.

I know, you're only interested in your metaphysical politics. This isn't a creative writing class, if you want anybody to "think about what you would expect to see in the persona of a Christ", then say something meaningful about it first because as it stands, it doesn't mean anything. You may as well be asking "What would you expect a purple garbage can to want for labor day dinner?" It's pure BS.

One doesn't have to choose be a fucking dick all of their life.

Change starts with you. I've already given you the benefit of the doubt more times than I can count.

That's not integral to the FUA. You know what a persona is. Spare me the bollocks, I'm not interested. Really.

I do, but that doesn't shed any light on what you're asking in the OP. If you just want people to make up whatever crap comes into their minds then I suspect you're in the wrong forum. As I said, this is philosophy, not creative writing.

I've been around for two decades. Characters like you are pennies, even if I have empathy for them.

If that's not the pence calling the penny copper :lol:

I'm looking for pounds/dollars, so to speak.

Then maybe you should start providing it yourself, so to speak. All we get are these vague, meandering OP's that you quickly abandon because what more can you say about something that doesn't mean anything?

jamest · #8 by **jamest** » Feb 24, 2018 1:14 am

Thommo wrote:What I expect of The Christ is that he would have to be the living incarnation of God, as described in the Jehovan tradition - that is all knowing, all powerful, all wise, all merciful, all vengeful and more.

The Jesus described in the holy texts poured miracles out like candy for all and sundry. When doubting Thomas asked for proof, he provided everything that was required to show him that his claims were true.

For my own part, if someone I knew well had been dead and entombed for a few days, then got up and started walking about and letting me put my hand inside his gaping wounds, then I'd certainly take his claims of divinity seriously.

If physical miracles were not a condition of unveiling The Christ, what would you expect of that being in the way of [the expression of] their persona/character? You never said, above.

jamest · #9 by **jamest** » Feb 24, 2018 1:29 am

... Which is THE point of the thread.

Thommo · **#10** by **Thommo** » Feb 24, 2018 1:32 am

It's a defining characteristic that the messiah can meet and surpass any and all expectations put on them. That is one of the clearest ways they could do that.

If you want personal or personality descriptors, they would be surpassingly and unfailingly "nice", surpassingly and unfailingly "intelligent" and so on. Wise, benevolent, kind, understanding. These are the qualities ascribed to the character, beyond their divine ability to suspend the laws of nature and heal the sick. On top of that a prospective messiah would have to be inhumanly able to avoid error, they would never be wrong, even when pressed to do tricky arithmetic like calculate the 17th root of pi to 50 decimal places at a snap of the fingers.

The combination of those two things would naturally lead to the performance of miracles though. If I was able to heal the sick with a wave of my hand, I'd bloody well do it, and I'm only "middling nice" on a good day.

Thommo · **#11** by **Thommo** » Feb 24, 2018 1:32 am

jamest wrote:... Which is THE point of the thread.

Communicate more articulately and carefully if you want to condescend about your point.

Like all your other threads, this looks a lot like "random shit that crossed my mind".

jamest · **#12** by **jamest** » Feb 24, 2018 1:48 am

Thommo wrote:It's a defining characteristic that the messiah can meet and surpass any and all expectations put on them. That is one of the clearest ways they could do that.

If you want personal or personality descriptors, they would be surpassingly and unfailingly "nice", surpassingly and unfailingly "intelligent" and so on. Wise, benevolent, kind, understanding. These are the qualities ascribed to the character, beyond their divine ability to suspend the laws of nature and heal the sick. On top of that a prospective messiah would have to be inhumanly able to avoid error, they would never be wrong, even when pressed to do tricky arithmetic like calculate the 17th root of pi to 50 decimal places at a snap of the fingers.

You're still ascribing qualities to 'God' which can be verified by physicalism/rationalism. You're [therefore] missing the point.

Which personal qualities (virtues) would you expect God to consistently express through a man?

Thommo · **#13** by **Thommo** » Feb 24, 2018 2:05 am

You're being self contradictory. If I can describe to you what it is about Jesus I could see, then I am, by definition describing observables.

You're also using square brackets incorrectly again.

PS: I would suggest you take the hint from SAM and provide examples of what you're looking for. If you give a template answer to your own question it would show what you deem to be a satisfactory answer.

SafeAsMilk · **#14** by **SafeAsMilk** » Feb 24, 2018 2:10 am

jamest wrote:
Thommo wrote:
If you want personal or personality descriptors, they would be surpassingly and unfailingly "nice", surpassingly and unfailingly "intelligent" and so on. Wise, benevolent, kind, understanding.

Which personal qualities (virtues) would you expect God to consistently express through a man?

Cito di Pense · **#15** by **Cito di Pense** » Feb 24, 2018 2:32 am

jamest wrote:
You're still ascribing qualities to 'God' which can be verified by physicalism/rationalism. You're [therefore] missing the point.

Which personal qualities (virtues) would you expect God to consistently express through a man?

How can I miss the point? It's a story somebody else made up. How can I have any expectations of my own? I know it's fashionable (or something, at least in some circles) to channel one's creative juices into re-energizing the story of Christ, but what would be the point? There's all sorts of ways I could channel my creative juices. Don't I get to choose? How does a guy standing on a soapbox and ranting get my attention? That guy never gets to the point, does he?

There just isn't any a priori basis for imagining that God (whatever that is) should express itself in the form of a human being. We have plenty of stories telling us what the term God should denote. How are they authoritative? I can tell you what I expect based on stories I've heard, but that's just you sitting around the parlor inducing someone to talk about Christ.

Gila Guerilla · **#16** by **Gila Guerilla** » Feb 24, 2018 2:54 am

jamest wrote:My wandering mind leads me all over the place, including [now] to this thought: that there are more ways than one to pinpoint a Christ.

... I mean, let's leave out the 'physical evidence' of miracles, which no doubt most of you here would consider bullshit anyway. David Blaine stuff, or whatever, if not outright lies.

I'm talking about the signs of a Christ in a persona? What then would you expect, devoid of the 'physical magic'? Serious question. Honest guv'.

I mean, you obviously have to be open-minded in this thread and therefore retract any surety in your physicalist beliefs, but this is the philosophy forum so what the hell.

Beyond physical miracles, what would you expect of the The Christ? This is a genuine question, so spare me the BS. I'm so tired of the BS.

My honest and open-minded response to that would be to say that you might as well be asking what to expect of "The Flying Spaghetti Monster". If the FSM is a made up thing, and I'm the one who made it up, (I'm not), but if I was, then it'd be pretty silly of me to ask you, what you'd expect of it. The only sensible thing would be for me to tell you what to expect of my made up FSM, and if I tried to convince you that it is real, I'd still know in my own mind that it's fake.

So too with the Christ. Suppose there was a Christ, the only thing we could know about it, is what has been written by others. So you need to be asking those who believe, (or who have died and believed), what they would expect of this Christ. The problem with what has been written is that it is so bad, evidentially, that I don't know what to believe about that there Christ fella.

I have been asked before, outright: "Do you believe that Jesus existed?" My reply has been - maybe, maybe not, but I don't care one way or the other. Similarly, there may or not not have been a Robin Hood, a William Tell, a Lancelot. But why the heck should I care if they existed or not? I don't.

Thommo · **#17** by **Thommo** » Feb 24, 2018 3:27 am

Robin Hood was made up by cloth merchants. True story.

surreptitious57 · **#18** by **surreptitious57** » Feb 24, 2018 4:17 am

If one ignores the negative characteristics of Christs behaviour in the Gospels and instead focused only on the positive ones
I would expect to see both humility and wisdom. But conveniently ignoring the negatives would not be truly representative
of him however so I would have to include them as well. For me though the question is academic because even if Jesus did exist he was just a human being and no more Messianic than anyone else

zoon · **#19** by **zoon** » Feb 24, 2018 9:05 am

jamest wrote:My wandering mind leads me all over the place, including [now] to this thought: that there are more ways than one to pinpoint a Christ.

... I mean, let's leave out the 'physical evidence' of miracles, which no doubt most of you here would consider bullshit anyway. David Blaine stuff, or whatever, if not outright lies.

I'm talking about the signs of a Christ in a persona? What then would you expect, devoid of the 'physical magic'? Serious question. Honest guv'.

I mean, you obviously have to be open-minded in this thread and therefore retract any surety in your physicalist beliefs, but this is the philosophy forum so what the hell.

Beyond physical miracles, what would you expect of the The Christ? This is a genuine question, so spare me the BS. I'm so tired of the BS.

By definition here, you seem to be asking about a Christ, an embodiment of god, who stays strictly within the laws of physics and chemistry (i.e. doesn't produce miracles). I would have thought that a god who stays strictly within the physicalist view of the world is rather carefully hiding their special power, the extra that makes them a god.

Fallible · **#20** by **Fallible** » Feb 24, 2018 9:08 am

jamest wrote:My wandering mind leads me all over the place, including [now] to this thought: that there are more ways than one to pinpoint a Christ.

... I mean, let's leave out the 'physical evidence' of miracles, which no doubt most of you here would consider bullshit anyway. David Blaine stuff, or whatever, if not outright lies.

I'm talking about the signs of a Christ in a persona? What then would you expect, devoid of the 'physical magic'? Serious question. Honest guv'.

I mean, you obviously have to be open-minded in this thread and therefore retract any surety in your physicalist beliefs, but this is the philosophy forum so what the hell.

Beyond physical miracles, what would you expect of the The Christ? This is a genuine question, so spare me the BS. I'm so tired of the BS.

Honestly, who cares? Can we not skip the usual crap this time and you just tell us what the correct answer is?

A philosophy on how to find The Messiah, The Christ

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