Ah well in that case my counter is that I know of lots of women who sleep around just as much as any man and revel in it too; has TMB never been a student, I can only think not otherwise he would be well aware of how both main sexes tend to play musical beds fairly regularly; hasn't TMB been out of a Friday or Saturday night when both the main sexes are getting minged off their fucking tits and hooking up with the first person who comes along; has TMB no knowledge of the gay scene in for example Brighton and Manchester where the women hook up casually just as the men do, although matters of anatomy make it perhaps a little more difficult for them to quickly get down to it in the toilets; he must just live in a fairly sheltered world where no respectable married woman has flings going on behind the scenes while appearing to be the epitome of virtue on the surface - that kind of thing.

TMB wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:

Fallible wrote:
I explicitly stated in the part that james snipped that I was not talking about infidelity

I thought you were for some reason. In that case then women should be as free as men to have as many sexual partners
as they choose. There should be zero discrimination in that respect. As long as they are responsible consenting adults
then there is nothing wrong in principle with that. Cultural sensitivities that pronounce judgement upon women for
being promiscuous are benevolently sexist at least and blatantly misogynistic at worst and I reject them completely

I do not see how you can judge female promiscuity the same as for males given the obvious different tendencies of the
genders There is certainly social pressure that judges omen more harshly but to my mind men and women are biologically less inclined to be promiscuous except in exceptional circumstances. For example homosexual males appear to revel in casual sex more than females. In western countries like Australia public toilets, sand dunes get filled with gay men looking for very casual hookups, but I have never seen of or heard gay women being a problem to the extent gay men. Women who are inclined to be indiscriminately promiscuous are in the profession of prostitutes, where for obvious reasons they sleep with a large number
of men who are prepared to pay for impersonal, anonymous sex. There does not appear to be the same demand for prostitutes by women who are just looking for quick sex. Women who are selectively promiscuous are groupies, where they are prepared
to sleep with someone who is a total stranger however the lure of their status in society means they will readily have casual
sex The celebrity is also having promiscuous sex, once again the model does not work the other way where high status
women are prepared to have sex with unlimited amounts of groupies, no doubt the men would be willing, but they will
do it with women of any status

Given these obvious differences on what basis do you give them equal moral status

On the basis that I regard men and woman as being equal so the greater promiscuity of men is
irrelevant to that fact now. By the way love the wonderful generalisations you are using here

Fallible wrote:Ah well in that case my counter is that I know of lots of women who sleep around just as much as any man and revel in it too; has TMB never been a student, I can only think not otherwise he would be well aware of how both main sexes tend to play musical beds fairly regularly; hasn't TMB been out of a Friday or Saturday night when both the main sexes are getting minged off their fucking tits and hooking up with the first person who comes along; has TMB no knowledge of the gay scene in for example Brighton and Manchester where the women hook up casually just as the men do, although matters of anatomy make it perhaps a little more difficult for them to quickly get down to it in the toilets; he must just live in a fairly sheltered world where no respectable married woman has flings going on behind the scenes while appearing to be the epitome of virtue on the surface - that kind of thing.

You are reading too much of your bias into my comments, so I will help you out. I am well aware that women screw around, usually when they can get away with it, and unless pissed out of their heads, are a lot less honest about this than men are.

As I have teenage kids, I see plenty of teenage behavior, and having lived in a number of countries and visited many more (so you need to try offer logic and reason instead of dropping comments like me living in sheltered life which through designed to belittle me simply act upon you). I am well aware of how much this happens when teenage hormones are flowing and they are less aware of the consequences of their behavior.

So you are suggesting that there are gay communities in Brighton and Manchester where the women queue up at the public toilets just like gay men - I really would like to see the some evidence for this. Australia is reasonably liberal and I cannot see why if lesbians wanted to skulk in the sand dunes or public toilets they would be doing so as much as the men do - but they dont. I recall an early presentation gay parade that I attended in the 90's in Cape Town where the gay males were working really hard to be sexually demonstrative, with lots of simulated humping through the parade, while the women were certainly not shy about their affections to each other but it had a far less carnal aspect than did the men.

I am also well aware that 'respectable married women' (spare me the badly veiled sarcasm and try stick to an objective position) are capable of being cheating and and acting upon their desires, just not as good at being upfront about it all.

One reason I have an issue with selling the myth that men and women are equally promiscuous came about because of a story I heard from a teenage girl who had slept a couple of times with a male friend in a circle of teenage kids we know quite well. She now wanted something more from this young man who was clearly just interested in the sex when it was freely offered and had very little interest in anything deeper. The girl wanted my wife to explain if it was supposed to be just as OK for women to sleep around as men, things like this should not be happening. Sadly, she has been well indoctrinated by a situation that gets sold but is not real. Aside from her different emotional reaction to the sex, she will get judged by both the males and females. I get frustrated when I see the power of any social lobby that is trying to peddle something not backed by the facts.

Oh, look, an anecdote!

Tell me the one about how no boy ever mooned over a girl who slept with him but didn't want a relationship. Tell me that one. That's a good one.

TMB wrote:I am well aware that women screw around, usually when they can get away with it,

There's something a bit iffy about this statement but I'm blowed if I can get a handle on it.....

You're overthinking it, DD. Just accept that wimminz are all tarts and need the firm guidance of a God-Fearing man in order to attain the Kingdom of Heaven. Oh, and bring me a sammich and beer.

laklak wrote:You're overthinking it, DD. Just accept that wimminz are all tarts and need the firm guidance of a God-Fearing man in order to attain the Kingdom of Heaven. Oh, and bring me a sammich and beer.

You're so right, Lak. All this thinking is making my little brain hurt.

Would that be egg-mayo or chicken in your sammich? And may I have a small sip of your beer?

TMB wrote:

Fallible wrote:Ah well in that case my counter is that I know of lots of women who sleep around just as much as any man and revel in it too; has TMB never been a student, I can only think not otherwise he would be well aware of how both main sexes tend to play musical beds fairly regularly; hasn't TMB been out of a Friday or Saturday night when both the main sexes are getting minged off their fucking tits and hooking up with the first person who comes along; has TMB no knowledge of the gay scene in for example Brighton and Manchester where the women hook up casually just as the men do, although matters of anatomy make it perhaps a little more difficult for them to quickly get down to it in the toilets; he must just live in a fairly sheltered world where no respectable married woman has flings going on behind the scenes while appearing to be the epitome of virtue on the surface - that kind of thing.

You are reading too much of your bias into my comments, so I will help you out.

You are presuming bias regarding my comments based on your own bias so I will help you out.

I am well aware that women screw around, usually when they can get away with it, and unless pissed out of their heads, are a lot less honest about this than men are.

I am well aware of your propensity for making statements you never back up and expecting people to accept them (then getting arsey when they don't), and this is another one.

As I have teenage kids, I see plenty of teenage behavior, and having lived in a number of countries and visited many more (so you need to try offer logic and reason instead of dropping comments like me living in sheltered life which through designed to belittle me simply act upon you).

Someone watched as the point sailed over his head. I can see that perhaps you don't recognise what I did there, so I will help you out. In response to your string of unevidenced assertions I provided several of my own, because that is all that is needed to counter yours. That you completely failed to see this is telling, and your subsequent appeal to logic and reason with regard to myself when it was your engagement in exactly the same behaviour which prompted my response just rams it home. If you were approaching this topic in a logical and reasoned way, you would back up your assertions with evidence, and you wouldn't leap so quickly to making unevidenced assumptions about the motivations of your interlocutor. I suggest that before you start trying tell other people how to behave you ensure that you have your own house in order.

I am well aware of how much this happens when teenage hormones are flowing and they are less aware of the consequences of their behavior.

And I am well aware that you are now attempting to move the goalposts and are on your way to laying the foundations for true Scotsmen to never appear.

So you are suggesting that there are gay communities in Brighton and Manchester where the women queue up at the public toilets just like gay men - I really would like to see the some evidence for this.

This is where your "logic and reason" really come across as the empty buzzwords they are. In lieu of sticking with what was actually said you apparently think the best course of action is to manufacture a position for me to hold which bears no resemblance to anything I've said, and in fact is clearly in exact opposition to what I did say. If you take the time to go back and look at my comment you apparently expect me to believe you absorbed, you'll see that I specifically addressed the anatomical differences which mean that sex in semi-public places might not happen as much with women as it does with men. However if you think this means that women don't have casual sex with other women as much as men do with each other based on this one variable, logic and reason would like to have a word with you.

Australia is reasonably liberal and I cannot see why if lesbians wanted to skulk in the sand dunes or public toilets they would be doing so as much as the men do - but they dont.

Yes - you're not really getting the hang of this whole back-up-your-assertions thing, are you. You saying ''such a thing doesn't happen" does not count - I think I've already been over this.

There is something you are overlooking here, which you really should not be doing. There is an argument that gay men and gay women cannot be compared in the narrow way which you are attempting in your ''argument'' here. Women are know to be demonstrably affectionate to each other in a way that men are not, and it is accepted with women in a way that it is not accepted with men. They're known to hang out at each other's houses, nattering with each other and talking about boys and shoes far more than men. The opportunity for them to be alone is always there, whereas men have to skulk about, according to you. Women have been quietly having sex with each other with no one being any the wiser, since they have much more of an opportunity. This coupled with the fact that it's not physically as easy for two women to have sex as it is for two men could be why you see less of it occurring. Women have to become more undressed, they have to manoeuvre themselves into less hastily rectified positions. I suppose it could also take longer to reach completion. They also, it can be argued, have greater access to the privacy necessary than their male counterparts because they so often meet up alone and in private to do all that simpering and twittering and comparing handbags. That doesn't mean they're doing it less, it means you're not seeing it to the same extent.

I recall an early presentation gay parade that I attended in the 90's in Cape Town where the gay males were working really hard to be sexually demonstrative, with lots of simulated humping through the parade, while the women were certainly not shy about their affections to each other but it had a far less carnal aspect than did the men.

I recall several nights out on a Saturday where the women simulated sex with each other and sex toys and glass bottles while the men were certainly not shy about their affections to each other but it had a far less carnal aspect than did the women.

I am also well aware that 'respectable married women' (spare me the badly veiled sarcasm and try stick to an objective position) are capable of being cheating and and acting upon their desires, just not as good at being upfront about it all.

I am aware that you have several opinions about both 'respectable married women' and women in general (spare me the attempt to attribute yet another made-up motivation to me, and don't begin to think you are in a position to make demands of others) - all you are doing here is making more baseless assertions.

One reason I have an issue with selling the myth that men and women are equally promiscuous

You are now begging the question.

came about because of a story I heard from a teenage girl who had slept a couple of times with a male friend in a circle of teenage kids we know quite well. She now wanted something more from this young man who was clearly just interested in the sex when it was freely offered and had very little interest in anything deeper. The girl wanted my wife to explain if it was supposed to be just as OK for women to sleep around as men, things like this should not be happening. Sadly, she has been well indoctrinated by a situation that gets sold but is not real. Aside from her different emotional reaction to the sex, she will get judged by both the males and females. I get frustrated when I see the power of any social lobby that is trying to peddle something not backed by the facts.

This is where I insert my own story which is diametrically opposed to the one you told and then try to use it to back up a position I have so far just asserted. Oh no hang on - that would be utterly pointless and I would rightly be criticised for assuming that my personal anecdote held any weight whatsoever. Are you really of the view that anyone gives a shit about your stories? If so, why do you think they're so important that they don't require you to back them up any further?

Doubtdispelled wrote:

laklak wrote:You're overthinking it, DD. Just accept that wimminz are all tarts and need the firm guidance of a God-Fearing man in order to attain the Kingdom of Heaven. Oh, and bring me a sammich and beer.

You're so right, Lak. All this thinking is making my little brain hurt.

Would that be egg-mayo or chicken in your sammich? And may I have a small sip of your beer?

Of course you can, but only a sip. You know how it affects you. Chicken please, with tomato. Toasted.

Toasted tomato.

babel wrote:Toasted tomato.

I think he means the sandwich, Babel, not just the tomato....

Lak, are you sure you wouldn't prefer brie and bacon if it's gonna be a toastie?

Bacon and brie. Damn that sounds good. Just so happens that IRL I have some bacon and some brie, and a sammich toaster and some nice bread. Lunch = sorted.

Bacon and brie is best on a warm croissant but a toastie would suffice

Scarlett wrote:Bacon and brie is best on a warm croissant but a toastie would suffice

Scarlett, this sounds suspiciously like a desire...

It must have been hard for you to own up to that.

scott1328 wrote:

Scarlett wrote:Bacon and brie is best on a warm croissant but a toastie would suffice

Scarlett, this sounds suspiciously like a desire...

It must have been hard for you to own up to that.

I had a minor meltdown but it was strangely liberating!

Scarlett wrote:

scott1328 wrote:

Scarlett wrote:Bacon and brie is best on a warm croissant but a toastie would suffice

Scarlett, this sounds suspiciously like a desire...

It must have been hard for you to own up to that.

I had a minor meltdown but it was strangely liberating!

Well, there goes Western civilization.

laklak wrote:

Scarlett wrote:

scott1328 wrote:

Scarlett wrote:Bacon and brie is best on a warm croissant but a toastie would suffice

Scarlett, this sounds suspiciously like a desire...

It must have been hard for you to own up to that.

I had a minor meltdown but it was strangely liberating!

Well, there goes Western civilization.

We saw it before with Rome, we're seeing it again now.

Fallible wrote:
Yes - you're not really getting the hang of this whole back-up-your-assertions thing, are you. You saying ''such a thing doesn't happen" does not count - I think I've already been over this.

There is something you are overlooking here, which you really should not be doing. There is an argument that gay men and gay women cannot be compared in the narrow way which you are attempting in your ''argument'' here. Women are know to be demonstrably affectionate to each other in a way that men are not, and it is accepted with women in a way that it is not accepted with men. They're known to hang out at each other's houses, nattering with each other and talking about boys and shoes far more than men. The opportunity for them to be alone is always there, whereas men have to skulk about, according to you. Women have been quietly having sex with each other with no one being any the wiser, since they have much more of an opportunity. This coupled with the fact that it's not physically as easy for two women to have sex as it is for two men could be why you see less of it occurring. Women have to become more undressed, they have to manoeuvre themselves into less hastily rectified positions. I suppose it could also take longer to reach completion. They also, it can be argued, have greater access to the privacy necessary than their male counterparts because they so often meet up alone and in private to do all that simpering and twittering and comparing handbags. That doesn't mean they're doing it less, it means you're not seeing it to the same extent.

Your first sentence says (along with the usual sneering tone), I should back up my assertions better and your third sentence is your assertion that "women are know(n).. affectionate...etc" This is an assertion with neither logic or evidence to support it. Is it just me that needs to backup my assertions?

However, as it happens I agree with you, and in fact all these describe the less promiscuous behavior of women relative to men. It is because women do build a relationship, invite people into their homes for relationships, that they are less promiscuous than men, who are capable of meeting and having casual sex with no need for establishing relationships for followup, they are just getting casual sex the quickest and most effective way.

Your assertion that it is more difficult for women together to effect sex than men is simplistic. Note that at places like public toilets these are given away by the numbers of cars parked there at odd hours, usually with single men inside. It takes effort to drive a few km, or sitting in the sand dunes looking for pickups gives ample time to manage any wardrobe malfunctions required, so a few minutes undressing is hardly a hurdle if you are trying to get some sex. I cannot speak for the specifics of what women will be doing when they overcome the major hurdle of being dressed, perhaps just in a short dress with no panties or bra?, but hetero couples have no issue grabbing a quickie in parked cars, sand dunes - maybe I am missing some specifically cumbersome process that happens when two women have sex. Once again a good reason for women to take a bit more care when coupling - all leading to less promiscuity.

I have no doubt that men are just as capable of privacy in their homes, but I suspect that they kep it away from home because they do not need or want the personal side, that is reserved for relationships, while the advantage of doing it in known public places means it can be anonymous, does not bring it into your personal everyday life (ie. promiscuous), unlike it seems gay women do.

This shows greater investment and the more personal touch that women apply to their sexual relationships (as you stated above in unexpected support of my point), and this is not undermined by womens tendency to become groupies to high status males. In these cases women establish a relationship with the celebrities brand and are able to fall in love with just their projected image. This is sound judgement on their part, because they know for sure that they will be getting to a high status and very desirable male. In these cases the sex appears logistically very easy and women can be passed through the dressing rooms or tour buses within minutes, so they seem to manage the wardrobe challenges without a problem when required to have quick sex with a male. But I still would not classify this in the same way as I would a males ability and desire for no string attached sex. Given the ease of hetero sex (just a short dress with no panties will work well) why do you not see men and women taking advantage of this and meeting for hetero quickies in the sand dunes, or the unisex toilets? Because women dont let it happen that way. Why not? Because they are less promiscuous.