Walk into a room and turn right 7+n times. N is determined by how many rooms are in the house.

sennekuyl wrote:Walk into a room and turn right 7+n times. N is determined by how many rooms are in the house.

The number of my rooms = the square root of 1. I guess I'm screwed.

NineOneFour wrote:

michael^3 wrote:
It is still the case that believing in God greatly reduces your risk of burning in hell

Nice twist on Pascal's wager but still lame...

Does he really mean "reduces" your risk? Some Chritians have told me that not believing in God was no-risk straight to Hell. I wish they'd get their story straight amongst themselves; having many inconsistent versions of the one true religion makes it so time-consuming to pick all their beliefs apart, but nevertheless...

Apart from the fact that Michael is wrong about belief being some sort of celestial fire insurance scheme, let's assume for a moment he's not...

1. Michael says non-belief carries greater risk of eternal torture.
2. Michael says that not everyone is able to believe.
3. Therefore, according to Michael's religion, some people are simply born, through no fault of their own, destined for eternal torture.

Hardly the hallmark of a just deity, let alone one worth worshipping.

Unless, of course, Michael believes in Karma or someting. Perhaps he feels that people incapable of belief are born so because of some sin accrued in a past life when they were able to believe but chose not to or something. This begs the question, though, why they weren't simply sent to the torture chamber straight away instead of having to live again, but I'm absolutely sure Michael can invent some lame reason to hand-wave that away as well.

Pastafarianism is so much simpler than this Christian schtick. I'd switch to the FSM if I were you Michael - it requires much less cognitive dissonance effort to explain away, and the transubstantion is so much more delicous.

Confused.

michael^3 wrote:

Latimeria wrote:So, michael-cubed, I'm assuming you would kiss Hank's ass?

Whether you would or not, please explain why in as much detail as you can. I think it would help me to understand your position.

Thanks.

This all rests on the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea which I don't believe. So the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant to me.

Did you not catch the bits about incentives/rewards for believing? Did you consider that the whole proposition sounds really nice and that the guy thought it was something worth doing "if it's legit"? The implications regarding wanting to believe something and the potential conflict when assessing its plausibility? Any of that?

michael^3 wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

This all rests on the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea which I don't believe. So the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant to me.

You don't? Then what is the point of believing or not believing? Does this mean I can finally have sex with my girlfriend without fearing divine judgement? I mean if God is real but does not send you to hell for not believing in him, I think I can manage on my own...

It is still the case that believing in God greatly reduces your risk of burning in hell

If you don't believe the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea , then why even worry about it or if not worry, then why even mention it?

If you don't subscribe to that part of scripture and aspect of the faith, then there is no risk for you, from it.

And as it was pointed our, your statement, though only a reduction of the chance of burning in hell, is still essentially Pascal's Pathetic and Morally Bankrupt Wager.

If an invisible flying Panda rotating around Venus touched your soul, what would you expect to feel?

NineOneFour wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

You don't? Then what is the point of believing or not believing? Does this mean I can finally have sex with my girlfriend without fearing divine judgement? I mean if God is real but does not send you to hell for not believing in him, I think I can manage on my own...

It is still the case that believing in God greatly reduces your risk of burning in hell

Nice twist on Pascal's wager but still lame. Belief in WHAT god? Maybe there are multiple gods and if you don't believe in them, you're going to Hell.

It's just that believing in god may help some people to get their moral act straight.

But if you can do this without god, and many people can, then you don't have to believe in any god to avoid hell.

Is there a comprehensive set of objective standards of morality that everyone is expected to understand and follow, or does God just want everyone to follow their own conscience, or (insert other options as needed)? I believe I have a well developed set of morals, but they do not always coincide with Biblical morals, and in fact there are some areas in which I am in direct opposition to many mainstream Christian moral teachings.

Do I go to hell?

michael^3 wrote:But if you can do this without god, and many people can, then you don't have to believe in any god to avoid hell.

You're just making this all up as you go along.

I said before somewhere that there are almost as many religions as there are individuals on the planet, and you're proving this point beautifully with every post you make.

Willhud's wonderful word writ large with you, isn't it!

Latimeria wrote:Is there a comprehensive set of objective standards of morality that everyone is expected to understand and follow, or does God just want everyone to follow their own conscience, or (insert other options as needed)? I believe I have a well developed set of morals, but they do not always coincide with Biblical morals, and in fact there are some areas in which I am in direct opposition to many mainstream Christian moral teachings.

Yes I think that basically you have to follow your own conscience.

Do I go to hell?

Latimeria wrote: and in fact there are some areas in which I am in direct opposition to many mainstream Christian moral teachings.

Mere curiosity, such as?

and what is mainstream Christian, moral teachings?

michael^3 wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

It is still the case that believing in God greatly reduces your risk of burning in hell

Nice twist on Pascal's wager but still lame. Belief in WHAT god? Maybe there are multiple gods and if you don't believe in them, you're going to Hell.

It's just that believing in god may help some people to get their moral act straight.

You mean like pedophile priests? Yeah, I'm sure it's worked for them.

Not one person has become more moral by believing in god. Not one.

But if you can do this without god, and many people can, then you don't have to believe in any god to avoid hell.

Define 'moral'. I bet yours is slightly different from mine.

And, morality is the way to escape hell? Citation needed.

michael^3 wrote:

Latimeria wrote:Is there a comprehensive set of objective standards of morality that everyone is expected to understand and follow, or does God just want everyone to follow their own conscience, or (insert other options as needed)? I believe I have a well developed set of morals, but they do not always coincide with Biblical morals, and in fact there are some areas in which I am in direct opposition to many mainstream Christian moral teachings.

Yes I think that basically you have to follow your own conscience.

Do I go to hell?

Like Westboro Baptist Church?

willhud9 wrote:

Latimeria wrote: and in fact there are some areas in which I am in direct opposition to many mainstream Christian moral teachings.

Mere curiosity, such as?

and what is mainstream Christian, moral teachings?

And....where does he get his morality from, if not Christianity...?

NineOneFour wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

Latimeria wrote: and in fact there are some areas in which I am in direct opposition to many mainstream Christian moral teachings.

Mere curiosity, such as?

and what is mainstream Christian, moral teachings?

And....where does he get his morality from, if not Christianity...?

I do not understand the intent of this question. I was merely asking Latimeria which areas were in direct opposition and what mainstream Christian moral teachings were.

willhud9 wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

Mere curiosity, such as?

and what is mainstream Christian, moral teachings?

And....where does he get his morality from, if not Christianity...?

I do not understand the intent of this question. I was merely asking Latimeria which areas were in direct opposition and what mainstream Christian moral teachings were.

Where do you think morality comes from?

NineOneFour wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

And....where does he get his morality from, if not Christianity...?

I do not understand the intent of this question. I was merely asking Latimeria which areas were in direct opposition and what mainstream Christian moral teachings were.

Where do you think morality comes from?

Personally, as a theist I believe the bare essentials, a skeleton if you will, for morality comes from God. The meat and flesh of that morality is toned due to social, cultural, and ethnic surroundings. But that is personal speculation and philosophy.

willhud9 wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

I do not understand the intent of this question. I was merely asking Latimeria which areas were in direct opposition and what mainstream Christian moral teachings were.

Where do you think morality comes from?

Personally, as a theist I believe the bare essentials, a skeleton if you will, for morality comes from God. The meat and flesh of that morality is toned due to social, cultural, and ethnic surroundings. But that is personal speculation and philosophy.

How can any of morality stem from God, if there are different Gods?

NineOneFour wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

Where do you think morality comes from?

Personally, as a theist I believe the bare essentials, a skeleton if you will, for morality comes from God. The meat and flesh of that morality is toned due to social, cultural, and ethnic surroundings. But that is personal speculation and philosophy.

How can any of morality stem from God, if there are different Gods?

Depends on your belief as a theist which God is real and which is not.

michael^3 wrote:

Latimeria wrote:So, michael-cubed, I'm assuming you would kiss Hank's ass?

Whether you would or not, please explain why in as much detail as you can. I think it would help me to understand your position.

Thanks.

This all rests on the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea which I don't believe. So the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant to me.

But you do expect a payoff, don't you? (Kiss Hank's ass - get big money; kiss god's ass - get eternity in heaven.)