michael^3 wrote:

CookieJon wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

Do you really want to believe that? Why would you want to believe a thing that you have the physique of Arnold Schwarzenegger, if there are clear indications that it ain't so?

Thank you for appropriating the argument against belief in your god! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I've heard.

Why would you want to believe that one of the Abrahamic myths is real, if there are clear indications that it ain't so?

You can measure your biceps and safely conclude that is less impressive than Arnie's. This is inside the realm of science. But concerning Abrahamic myths, things are not so clear.

It's within the realm of science to see if there was a global flood that killed 99.99% of life on earth. It's within the realm of science to see if human beings are separate creations from the rest of the animal kingdom. It's within the realm of science to see whether praying has an effect on the physical world. And it's pretty clear what the verdict of science is on these questions.

So given that Abrahamic myths are almost certainly just that - myths - why would I want to believe that they are actually true?

CookieJon wrote:

michael^3 wrote:If there is some aspect of god that you find too difficult to believe, why not simply drop that aspect?

I do. That is why I'm an atheist.

Orsonable!

Nebogipfel wrote:

michael^3 wrote:Do you really want to believe that? Why would you want to believe a thing that you have the physique of Arnold Schwarzenegger, if there are clear indications that it ain't so?

Aha! The penny wobbles on the very verge of dropping!

Nah we went through this... Michael believes that where religion is concerned, there are no "clear indications" of anything, therefore he's exempt from his own advice on the matter.

michael^3 wrote:

Nebogipfel wrote:The problem there is that at the end of this road lies wandering around in one's own little dream-world. I'm sure the 19th century Xhosa warriors wanted to believe that they were invulnerable to European bullets, and that sacrificing all their crops and cattle would prompt the ancestors to drive the colonists into the sea.

Unfortunately, tragically, they were mistaken.

Believing something that is not true may be harmful, I know that.

And how does one go about separating things that are true from things that are not true?

Nebogipfel wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

Nebogipfel wrote:The problem there is that at the end of this road lies wandering around in one's own little dream-world. I'm sure the 19th century Xhosa warriors wanted to believe that they were invulnerable to European bullets, and that sacrificing all their crops and cattle would prompt the ancestors to drive the colonists into the sea.

Unfortunately, tragically, they were mistaken.

Believing something that is not true may be harmful, I know that.

And how does one go about separating things that are true from things that are not true?

I'm still waiting on an answer to that one from michael or misterB...

NineOneFour wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

z8000783 wrote:
The message you may have got from this thread is that beliefs aren't a choice we make but are as a result a primarily unconscious process of assessment.


I would imagine that amongst the emotions that would rise to the fore, embarrassment would be high on the list, if anyone were to do that.

John

Even if you can't believe in god and you can't pray to god, you can always just keep god in mind.

That's like saying "keep the Big Blue Celestial Orbiting Mind-Control Teapot in mind"

Why should I waste my time?

Well you did post a response in a discussion about God, so you did have God on your mind for at least a few minutes.

I understand now that it was completely unnecessary to give advice, since you're already doing it.

michael^3 wrote:Well you did post a response in a discussion about God, so you did have God on your mind for at least a few minutes.

Is that like how you've had atheism on your mind, as you've been posting on this forum for at least a few weeks?

Latimeria wrote:So, michael-cubed, I'm assuming you would kiss Hank's ass?

Whether you would or not, please explain why in as much detail as you can. I think it would help me to understand your position.

Thanks.

This all rests on the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea which I don't believe. So the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant to me.

CookieJon wrote:

michael^3 wrote:Well you did post a response in a discussion about God, so you did have God on your mind for at least a few minutes.

Is that like how you've had atheism on your mind, as you've been posting on this forum for at least a few weeks?

Yes. But you can't discuss atheism without discussing god.

michael^3 wrote:

Latimeria wrote:So, michael-cubed, I'm assuming you would kiss Hank's ass?

Whether you would or not, please explain why in as much detail as you can. I think it would help me to understand your position.

Thanks.

This all rests on the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea which I don't believe. So the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant to me.

You don't? Then what is the point of believing or not believing? Does this mean I can finally have sex with my girlfriend without fearing divine judgement? I mean if God is real but does not send you to hell for not believing in him, I think I can manage on my own...

Nebogipfel wrote:
So given that Abrahamic myths are almost certainly just that - myths - why would I want to believe that they are actually true?

Because all the other dogma feed the three great motivators of human behaviour: fear, greed, and laziness.

Fear: non-belief leads to infinite punishment
Greed: belief leads to infinite rewards
Laziness: zero need to think, we've done that for you

How could such a package not be attractive? If you want to outdo such a system for attractiveness, the only attribute in which a rival theory can top that is in truth. As it happens, that's not actually difficult, so the house of cards collapses quite quickly for those who treat truth as something of value.

willhud9 wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

Latimeria wrote:So, michael-cubed, I'm assuming you would kiss Hank's ass?

Whether you would or not, please explain why in as much detail as you can. I think it would help me to understand your position.

Thanks.

This all rests on the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea which I don't believe. So the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant to me.

You don't? Then what is the point of believing or not believing? Does this mean I can finally have sex with my girlfriend without fearing divine judgement? I mean if God is real but does not send you to hell for not believing in him, I think I can manage on my own...

It is still the case that believing in God greatly reduces your risk of burning in hell

How do you reduce from 0 possibility (as "God" hasn't been demonstrated to exist)? . Once you get to zero possibility, negative possibility is ridiculous...

michael^3 wrote:It is still the case that believing in God greatly reduces your risk of burning in hell

No it isn't.

michael^3 wrote:It is still the case that believing in God greatly reduces your risk of burning in hell

Bullshit.

Pascal's Wager!

Your god would burn me for the simple reason that I lacked a belief? What a twat!

You don't believe in faeries I take it? Well I was told by the king of the faeries that he would stick hot needles in your eyes for eternity unless you "said" you believed in faeries. So by your own definition, you should now believe in faeries just in case I am right.

michael^3 wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

Even if you can't believe in god and you can't pray to god, you can always just keep god in mind.

That's like saying "keep the Big Blue Celestial Orbiting Mind-Control Teapot in mind"

Why should I waste my time?

Well you did post a response in a discussion about God, so you did have God on your mind for at least a few minutes.

I understand now that it was completely unnecessary to give advice, since you're already doing it.

Wrong.

One can talk about a subject without believing in it, or thinking about it. Besides, what do you mean by "God"? I don't believe in God or gods, and I can consider my nonbelief whilst typing in this thread, without thinking about your God or anyone's god.

I can't believe you can't understand that, but I am unsurprised, really.

willhud9 wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

Latimeria wrote:So, michael-cubed, I'm assuming you would kiss Hank's ass?

Whether you would or not, please explain why in as much detail as you can. I think it would help me to understand your position.

Thanks.

This all rests on the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea which I don't believe. So the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant to me.

You don't? Then what is the point of believing or not believing? Does this mean I can finally have sex with my girlfriend without fearing divine judgement? I mean if God is real but does not send you to hell for not believing in him, I think I can manage on my own...

Nice insight. If Biblegod doesn't exist, and the Bible is rubbish, then God must not exist or be a deistic god at best, which means he wouldn't interfere in our lives.

If the Bible is accurate, which we all know it isn't, that's pretty much the only way Biblegod exists.

If part of the Bible is accurate and part of it isn't, we'll never know which bits, which brings us back to the Bible is basically rubbish and Biblegod doesn't exist.

Which is sort of a relief, really.

michael^3 wrote:

willhud9 wrote:

michael^3 wrote:

This all rests on the old "believe in god or you'll burn in hell" idea which I don't believe. So the whole thing is pretty much irrelevant to me.

You don't? Then what is the point of believing or not believing? Does this mean I can finally have sex with my girlfriend without fearing divine judgement? I mean if God is real but does not send you to hell for not believing in him, I think I can manage on my own...

It is still the case that believing in God greatly reduces your risk of burning in hell

Nice twist on Pascal's wager but still lame. Belief in WHAT god? Maybe there are multiple gods and if you don't believe in them, you're going to Hell.

I can do better than that pawiz. I've heard of a document that my grandfather knew a bloke who had read once that Ra was not happy with the way the world has treated Egypt, so unless you are kneeling facing east at dawn every day, in that day you shall surely drown after you die! You also have to be chanting Ra is Great, eating bananas and not have six fingers.

sennekuyl wrote:I can do better than that pawiz. I've heard of a document that my grandfather knew a bloke who had read once that Ra was not happy with the way the world has treated Egypt, so unless you are kneeling facing east at dawn every day, in that day you shall surely drown after you die! You also have to be chanting Ra is Great, eating bananas and not have six fingers.

Okay, I'm convinced. Which way is east again?