Atheistoclast wrote:

Calilasseia wrote:
Citations?

How many times do I have to repeat myself!?

Bozorgmehr, JEH (2010). Is gene duplication a viable explanation for the origination of biological information and complexity? Complexity ; Volume 16, Issue 6, pages 17–31.DOI: 10.1002/cplx.20365

ROFLMAO!!!!

A magazine categorized under "mathematics"...

His paper was reviewed by an economist? And one biologist whose expertise and specialty we know nothing about? Suddenly him managing to get those silly inconsequential papers passed starts to make sense.

To give some credit, I know I couldn't write anything that would pass peer review into even those magazines. Doesn't say anything for the data or logic, but for writing style... somewhat adequate.

Atheistoclast wrote:The paper I submitted was reviewed by an economist and a biologist. The journal claims to welcome "contributions from evolutionary biology, systematic biology, behavioral ecology, ethology, paleobiology, paleontology, sociobiology."

http://www.springer.com/economics/envir ... rnal/10818

Are you going to continue this futile obfuscation? I know what peer review is having gone through the process myself. You, on the other hand........

Perhaps the economist was there to check you adding up's and taking away's.

John

Atheistoclast wrote:

monkeyboy wrote:

Atheistoclast wrote:

The smelly bear poop only exists when people sense its smelly presence. It does not exist except in the conscious mind of the person sensing it. Remember that it is your mind that generates the world around you.

You're not remotely subtle are you when you ignore the salient point of posts?

If reality can only exist in the conscious mind of the person sensing things, how is it that things happen to us whilst we are unconscious?

Example, my wife has no uterus and cervix. They were removed during surgery whilst she was unconscious. The two children she gave birth to in my presence are evidence that she once had them. Now if her reality ceased to exist when they put her under, how the fuck did she wake up minus 1 uterus and 1 cervix with a fucking great scar across her abdomen?

Example, a friend of my father's had a hear attack at the wheel of his 18 wheel truck. He was unconscious as his truck rolled down an embankment and into a field overturning onto it's roof, spilling the 10,000 packs of toilet roll he was carrying. He was still unconscious when they dug him out of the cab and took him to hospital, gave him CPR and defibrilated him several times before stabilizing him and performing surgery where they widened some of his arteries. Do please explain how the fuck he ended up with the scars if there was no reality whilst he was out of it?

Example, I went to the dentist with wisdom teeth growing in the wrong direction. I sat down, they put a needle in the back of my hand and a gas mask on me. 15 mins later, I wake up sans wisdom teeth. Did God magic them away whilst I was unconscious? If he did, please, for fuck's sake get me some evidence because the thief of a dentist charged me over £300 for those two teeth.

Hypthetical scenario.
If I were to carve the letters TAWT into one side of a baseball bat and beat someone not unlike yourself into unconsciousness with the reverse side, and continue beating them during the period of their unconsciousness with the carved side, what word might show in the bruises received during the period when reality was proposed to not exist for that person, thus blowing their bullshit theory out of the water?

Ok. Let me explain. Everything you consciously perceive has been generated by your mind. I don't think that this is controversial per se. The reason you believe in an exterior and separate reality to that of your own mind is for the following reasons:

1. You don't intentionally create all that you see around you.

2. What you see is also what others see. It is objective as well as subjective.

3. You are affected, often adversely, by things happening around you.

However, according to the idealist position, it is in the mind of God that the universe and everything therein is generated. Our own minds share and partake in the consciousness of God and so experience it as it is divinely ordained. This essentially solves points 1 and 2.

Point 3 is just a little hard to accept only from a personal perspective. It is difficult to believe that the calamities that befall us are ultimately generated in our own minds. However, since all reality is dependent on the mind of God, our own minds merely adhere to the divine will. However, everything that affects you is the product of your own mind and has no other origin.

Focussing solely on the last bit (bolded) first. Seriously, how the fuck does that work? My missus had cancer. Are you suggesting that since this affected me, and it fucking well did before you start any sideways shite, it was the product of my mind? It also obviously affected her, our kids, her parents, the surgeon and associated medical team, friends and wider family members. Did we all conspire on some twisted subliminal way to produce her cancer in our minds?

I'm not being funny here but what if one of those affected thought differently? Like me for example. Eternal optimist that I am, when we first received abnormal test results, I was the one insisting that it would be something less sinister than cancer. The missus just thought straight off it probably was. How come, if it was the product of our minds, we both thought different things but it only turned out one way? Did I both want it to be cancer as well as not without knowing it?

Now I'll turn the broken record player on again. Where's your evidence for this bullshit you're spouting? All I see is an attempt to put some sort of responsibility on events to God and to individuals by some of the most convoluted reasoning and attempts at rationalising I've ever witnessed away from a psychiatric facility. I've heard diagnosed psychotic people make more sense than you do. Is there a current world record for the number of straws clutched at?

I want to weigh in on the "everything that affects you is the product of your own mind and has no other origin" bullshite.

Here's a litany of some the things that have *no I won't type the word* up my life this year, and all of this is the product of my bloody mind:
1. My 14 year old dog who I adored, died. I didn't invent him, he was a real dog who I'd had since he was 6 bloody weeks old and he lived by my side for 14 bloody years. There was nothing invented about how much I cried and still do cry about his death.
2. My 8 year old dog has an inoperable liver problem, she is dying by inches, and I weep every time I think about that, did I invent it.
3. My mother-in-law died, She was 90 years old and definitely was not originated in my mind because her son, my husband also lives in the house with me.
4. Some people offered to buy my house, paid everything they were due to pay, we spent a bloody fortune moving to a new house but then had to return to this one when the bank refused to pay the money they'd offered to lend the buyers. I didn't invent the humungous financial loss I suffered and the after-effects of which almost drove me out of my mind, and still make me angry, nearly three months later.
5. Burglars tried to break into my house, I didn't invent them or think them up, the broken window is still there as evidence of their attempt. And I don't have the money to fix the window because of 4. above.
Need more. This shitty year better end and bring some nice things for me to invent that are the origin of my own mind, like how about I invent a huge lottery win so I can go back to the place i had to leave because the invented buyers of my house weren't able to afford it. What a stupid, moronic insensitive thing to say. I suppose you'll come back with "things only affect you to the degree to which you allow them to affect you" well that's a pile of bullshit too, because things affect you simply because they cause you pain, take money out of your bank account and cause other people to tell you "you are stupid" maybe I am to trust people. I only hope that none of the horrible things I invented to cause me to almost lose my mind happen to you ever, please don't invent them they're not pleasant to deal with. *storms off the thread slamming the door behind her* (now that door I really DID invent).

I'm still reeling from the thought that Atheistoclast is a product of my mind. I'm going to try really, really hard to think him out of existence. brb

chairman bill wrote:I'm still reeling from the thought that Atheistoclast is a product of my mind. I'm going to try really, really hard to think him out of existence. brb

My brain hurts!

Seriously, I thought people here had outgrown that solipsist BS, but apparently, there's the odd one left.

chairman bill wrote:I'm still reeling from the thought that Atheistoclast is a product of my mind. I'm going to try really, really hard to think him out of existence. brb

Well hurry up please. We were wondering whose figment of imagination it was.

chairman bill wrote:I'm still reeling from the thought that Atheistoclast is a product of my mind. I'm going to try really, really hard to think him out of existence. brb

Aah, it's your fault is it. PM me your address Bill, that baseball bat I mentioned in my earlier post ought to be able to straighten your fucked up imagination out!!

We are in the Matrix and Chairman Bill's mind is in control. Holy shit.

Rofl

Has Joe been watching The Matrix too many times?

Oh God, (and Jesus Christ) (I'm in the mood for blasphemy so excuse me) Bill, please kick me out of this matrix of my freaking imagination so the wheel of bad luck can just stop turning.

(I know it's all my own fault because I don't believe that the great big magic man in the sky is punishing me for not believing in him, well I wish on him giant emerods on top of the ones I wished on him last week).

chairman bill wrote:I'm still reeling from the thought that Atheistoclast is a product of my mind. I'm going to try really, really hard to think him out of existence. brb

You can't, because the Creator has implanted the thought of my existence in your mind. I dwell in your mind and you in my own.

I am here to stay. Sorry.

We have a Creator, that's interesting. Where does he live? Is it in people's minds?

John

For the benefit of Calilasseia I am making a helpful suggestion:

If you have really read over 2,000 papers on evolutionary biology, then you are at a stage where you ought to commit this knowledge as a perspective or review article. Given your fascination with fish and their ecology, I think the following journal run by Professor John Endler is a good place to submit a manuscript (there are no author charges):

Evolutionary Ecology (published by Springer-Verlag)

http://www.springer.com/life+sciences/e ... rnal/10682

If you want to be taken seriously by a peer-reviewed researcher like myself, then you have to either publish or perish.

z8000783 wrote:We have a Creator, that's interesting. Where does he live? Is it in people's minds?

John

You live in the mind of the Creator and also share in his consciousness. In this sense, only the Creator can be said to exist since you are dependent on him for every aspect of your life and being.

Is the universe in his mind as well?

John