Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

Logic applied

Incl. intelligent design, belief in divine creation

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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#601  Postby Atheistoclast » Dec 12, 2011 8:22 pm

Agrippina wrote:
Atheistoclast wrote:
Agrippina wrote:

*Waiting with bated breath for the response to this post* :what:


Cali is all huff and puff. If he is so interested by evolutionary biology, he ought to write up and submit an appropriate manuscript (review, perspective or commentary). He could even write a research article based on the fish he keeps at home. I know he has taken many photos of them and observed their behavior. Evolutionary Ecology is a good journal. John Endler, the EIC, is one of Cali's heroes.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh boy, this is going to be a lot of fun.


He won't respond. His mission is to "debunk creatonism" rather than to contribute to the body of science.
Nothing in biology makes sense when you include evolution.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#602  Postby monkeyboy » Dec 12, 2011 8:33 pm

Aah, Atheistoclast is in the house. No answer about my wife's cancer then? How did it happen because nobody fucking wanted it but it did. We can't have any more kids now like we wanted before barring a miracle. Can the same people who gave us the cancer and all the associated pain and grief and ongoing prejudice from insurance companies magic us up a baby?
What is the matrix?
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#603  Postby sennekuyl » Dec 12, 2011 8:41 pm

Falsification is a function of science so anyone rigorously opposing creationism is performing science. If creationism ever evolves to be evidentially based we can thank Cali et al.

@Monkeyboy: giving your wife cancer is typically capricious of the 'Creator'. Doing unseemly things to people Appears to be his most grinding for which we apparently should give thanks.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#604  Postby monkeyboy » Dec 12, 2011 9:16 pm

sennekuyl wrote:@Monkeyboy: giving your wife cancer is typically capricious of the 'Creator'. Doing unseemly things to people Appears to be his most grinding for which we apparently should give thanks.

Except, according to our resident "expert", the capricious creator didn't do that, I did. Do you see where he wrote that (bolded below). He thinks I'm capable of being as twisted as that sick fuck of a God of his!! He wants me to accept the blame for her cancer. The poor mothers whose children are born with major disabilities, their own doing apparently. The kids whose parents die in car crashes leaving them orphans, totally to blame.
The FUA prevents me from truly expressing my thoughts towards people who can peddle this shite. I'm not petty enough to wish something similar back to see how you feel being told that your mind produced this sort of level of suffering, I truly hope you never have to understand how fucked up this sort of reasoning is!!
If this is genuinely how you see the world Atheistoclast, I am way beyond contempt, straight through to pity.

Atheistoclast wrote:Point 3 is just a little hard to accept only from a personal perspective. It is difficult to believe that the calamities that befall us are ultimately generated in our own minds. However, since all reality is dependent on the mind of God, our own minds merely adhere to the divine will. However, everything that affects you is the product of your own mind and has no other origin.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#605  Postby chairman bill » Dec 12, 2011 9:20 pm

monkeyboy wrote:... The FUA prevents me from truly expressing my thoughts towards people who can peddle this shite ...


Feel free to vent your anger on me. Call me a complete fucking twat & an absolute cunt. I won't mind. I'll be the scapegoat. Mods please note, I'm asking for it, literally, so no warnings. I won't consider it an insult or personal attack.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#606  Postby sennekuyl » Dec 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Hmmm... So he did. Bad form without evidence.

Proxy.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#607  Postby monkeyboy » Dec 12, 2011 9:31 pm

chairman bill wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:... The FUA prevents me from truly expressing my thoughts towards people who can peddle this shite ...


Feel free to vent your anger on me. Call me a complete fucking twat & an absolute cunt. I won't mind. I'll be the scapegoat. Mods please note, I'm asking for it, literally, so no warnings. I won't consider it an insult or personal attack.


I'm not feeding any troll, even by proxy.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#608  Postby Blackadder » Dec 12, 2011 9:38 pm

Monkeyboy, there no depth of wickedness to which a religious person cannot stoop in the name of his vile beliefs. The Christian God, the God of the Old Testament, the God of the Bible bashing fundamentalist, is a monster, as Dawkins has memorably pointed out. He is the personification of evil and one can only wonder at the sick morals of those who believe in this celestial bastard and his genocidal lust. The FUA prevent all of us from giving full reign to our feelings about the sheep who follow him, bleating platitudes about everlasting life and salvation while millions of their fellow humans suffer and die in unimaginable pain and wretchedness, which according to their beliefs must be at the behest of their God. You may pity them. I feel only disgust at their moral bankruptcy.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#609  Postby MrFungus420 » Dec 12, 2011 9:39 pm

Nebogipfel wrote:
Regina wrote:
Atheistoclast wrote:

Science allows us to observe the work of the Creator. Anatomists of the early 19th century studied the body in all its intricacy and complexity because it provided a direct insight into the mind of the Creator. The more we delve, the more we see just how intelligent this mind truly is. Science is a profoundly religious experience for many people.

Hang on for a sec:
The work of the Creator? Are you by any chance talking about entities that vanish the second you stop perceiving them? Which naturally includes the Creator, doesn't it? So you are the Creator of the universe, aren't you? Because your perception creates the Creator?


Vejur is that which seeks the Creator. :levi:

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#610  Postby Calilasseia » Dec 12, 2011 10:45 pm

Rumraket wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
Atheistoclast wrote:

Please follow the links to 3 of them. They were all rigorously peer reviewed by experts in the field:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 5/abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21550380

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q767h613177m34r1/

Another 2 are due to be published in the next few weeks. We live in exciting times.


Two of those are in non-biology journals, and the third does not question evolutionary theory at all.

Still, credit where it's due, you did get them published.

None of them question evolutionary theory, they just argue that it's constrained by certain factors. In fact, several of them contain various passages asserting that evolution works. There's a big difference between what Clastie says on forums such as these and what his papers contain.


So in other words, he's pulling a Baumgartner? Namely saying one thing in his papers, and another thing elsewhere? Another instance of duplicity to add to his tally.

Oh, meanwhile, I decided to do some checking on that journal he's supposed to be submitting his "paper" to. I decided to check out the website associated with the editor-in-chief. Guess what happened when I did? I was presented with a website for a video game. Here you go:

Gary Fogel's "natural selection" website

So 'Clast's paper is being reviewed by a video game writer involved in creating a fantasy world? This gets better.

As for my submitting material to a journal, I prefer to do this when I have something genuine to present, such as some experimental results. Unlike some, I don't pretend that I'm going to sweep aside 150 years of diligent scientific inquiry, on the basis of having a mythology rectally inserted. Also, I don't possess the hubris to pretend that I have a body of work worthy of the likes of Nature, I simply accept the validity of the work of people whose work has attained those heights, on the basis of having read it and understood what it is telling me. If at some point I do have some experimental results to provide, I'll be happy to submit them for perusal. The difference being, that if I ever do this, I will have substance to present, instead of a hollow simulacrum thereof.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#611  Postby theropod » Dec 12, 2011 11:04 pm

Cali,

Besides the reasons for not publishing you list above there is also those among us that have done actual research that have no serious interest in publication. In my efforts in South Dakota I formulated several hypothesis that could have been confirmed, or found to be baseless. by testing. Perhaps if my tenure there had not ended in an abortion I might have sought out an avenue to report those findings, but more than likely I would have taken a backseat role to a lead author. Aside from documentation I held little interest in publishing. Contrary to what is claimed one can churn out a respectable body of work without getting published. That's just my view and your mileage may vary.

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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#612  Postby Atheistoclast » Dec 12, 2011 11:26 pm

Calilasseia wrote:

So 'Clast's paper is being reviewed by a video game writer involved in creating a fantasy world? This gets better.


Nope.The EIC is not involved in the special issue. If you read the ad, you will see that 3 developmental biologists are handling it. You should also know that the paper will be reviewed by other scientists. The editor's job is just to do some basic screening and to contact the appropriate experts. I have passed the editor's screening stage and have moved on to the next.


As for my submitting material to a journal, I prefer to do this when I have something genuine to present, such as some experimental results. Unlike some, I don't pretend that I'm going to sweep aside 150 years of diligent scientific inquiry, on the basis of having a mythology rectally inserted. Also, I don't possess the hubris to pretend that I have a body of work worthy of the likes of Nature, I simply accept the validity of the work of people whose work has attained those heights, on the basis of having read it and understood what it is telling me. If at some point I do have some experimental results to provide, I'll be happy to submit them for perusal. The difference being, that if I ever do this, I will have substance to present, instead of a hollow simulacrum thereof.


You don't need your own data. To write a perspective, review or commentary article you can make do with other people's data. Your task would be to throw light on all these findings and to make sense of them. This is something needed by science. You should also think of attending a scientific conference on Evolution. I am going to the biggest gathering of evolutionary biologists next year in Ottawa. I will be rubbing shoulders with the likes of Sean Carrol, Jerry Coyne, Doug Futuyma etc:

http://www.confersense.ca/Evolution2012/index.htm

It will be a great occasion. I am so excited!
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#613  Postby Rumraket » Dec 13, 2011 5:28 am

Atheistoclast wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:

So 'Clast's paper is being reviewed by a video game writer involved in creating a fantasy world? This gets better.


Nope.The EIC is not involved in the special issue. If you read the ad, you will see that 3 developmental biologists are handling it. You should also know that the paper will be reviewed by other scientists. The editor's job is just to do some basic screening and to contact the appropriate experts. I have passed the editor's screening stage and have moved on to the next.


As for my submitting material to a journal, I prefer to do this when I have something genuine to present, such as some experimental results. Unlike some, I don't pretend that I'm going to sweep aside 150 years of diligent scientific inquiry, on the basis of having a mythology rectally inserted. Also, I don't possess the hubris to pretend that I have a body of work worthy of the likes of Nature, I simply accept the validity of the work of people whose work has attained those heights, on the basis of having read it and understood what it is telling me. If at some point I do have some experimental results to provide, I'll be happy to submit them for perusal. The difference being, that if I ever do this, I will have substance to present, instead of a hollow simulacrum thereof.


You don't need your own data. To write a perspective, review or commentary article you can make do with other people's data. Your task would be to throw light on all these findings and to make sense of them. This is something needed by science. You should also think of attending a scientific conference on Evolution. I am going to the biggest gathering of evolutionary biologists next year in Ottawa. I will be rubbing shoulders with the likes of Sean Carrol, Jerry Coyne, Doug Futuyma etc:

http://www.confersense.ca/Evolution2012/index.htm

It will be a great occasion. I am so excited!

Wow, you're going to a conference? I was at a computer conference once, I guess that makes me a computer scientist. I've also actually seen a real physicist once, and my boss is a biologist. :lol:
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#614  Postby Blackadder » Dec 13, 2011 6:00 am

An ass may go to a library but that doesn't make it a professor of English.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#615  Postby Agrippina » Dec 13, 2011 9:41 am

Oh wow I had a fight with Tony Greig once, does that make me a cricketer???? :dunno:
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#616  Postby GenesForLife » Dec 13, 2011 9:57 am

Agrippina wrote:Oh wow I had a fight with Tony Greig once, does that make me a cricketer???? :dunno:


It makes you someone who got trolled rather badly :mrgreen:
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#617  Postby Atheistoclast » Dec 13, 2011 1:46 pm

It is the first joint conference between European and North American evolutionists. All the big names will be there. It is a perfect opportunity to seize the day and take the Darwinian bull by the horns. I will be the ultimate gatecrasher and party pooper.
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#618  Postby Blackadder » Dec 13, 2011 2:15 pm

Atheistoclast wrote:It is the first joint conference between European and North American evolutionists. All the big names will be there. It is a perfect opportunity to seize the day and take the Darwinian bull by the horns. I will be the ultimate gatecrasher and party pooper.


Ever heard of Walter Mitty?
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#619  Postby Shrunk » Dec 13, 2011 2:18 pm

Atheistoclast wrote:It is the first joint conference between European and North American evolutionists. All the big names will be there. It is a perfect opportunity to seize the day and take the Darwinian bull by the horns. I will be the ultimate gatecrasher and party pooper.


Will you be presenting some of your work there, or just attending?
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Re: Is evolution just a hunch and a line of reasoning?

#620  Postby mindhack » Dec 13, 2011 2:20 pm

Blackadder wrote:Ever heard of Walter Mitty?

No. Thanks for the notification.
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