On social justice and social justice warriors

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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#81  Postby felltoearth » Jul 05, 2020 2:20 pm

arugula2 wrote:I was reminded of once hearing that the actor who played Starbuck in the original Battlestar Galactica was peeved that the new Starbuck was a woman... and I discover today that he actually vomited his thoughts into an article back in the day (2004). Naturally, it's reposted on Breitbart: "Lt. Starbuck … Lost In Castration."

I'm so glad the future's coming. I wish I were born 2 centuries from now.

Anyway, my retinas allowed me to absorb a few of his main points, and (boohoo) central to his psychosis is, of course, not the emasculation of Starbuck. Yes, he whines that the new version is too different (just as the reboot is too different from the original show). But he claims his problem with reboot-Starbuck is that she's gruff and manly, in contrast to his peaceful & jovial original (so basically, he has penis envy & now the title makes more sense, as anyone with painful uncertainty about his own manhood can find temporary relief by disparaging another person's genitalia. There's even a pointed comment about a "cigar"... how tragic.)

He then whines about how the women on the show make all the decisions, and the men cower. (False, in case anyone's wondering.) How morality used to be clear-cut, and the original show reflected this. How the new show's morality is ambiguous, messy, challenging. He must lash out. This is all happening too fast, it's too confusing... er, I mean... something-something-artistic, you see.



Did he mention that the character was a transparent copy of Han Solo? What a precious (non)aspect of the story to protect.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#82  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 2:29 pm

No, but he mentioned the satisfaction of being able to reprise the role in A-Team. Given, specifically, the freedom to suck on a cigar. Kid you not.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#83  Postby Mike_L » Jul 05, 2020 3:31 pm

Clip (6 seconds) from The A-Team, in which Dirk Benedict also starred...

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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#84  Postby laklak » Jul 05, 2020 4:38 pm

The National Basketball Association has released a list of "approved" social justice messages for players jerseys.

You can't make this shit up. Welcome to the Revolution! But first, a word from our sponsors....

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-shares-approved-social-justice-statements-for-the-back-of-players-jerseys-at-disney-restart-per/
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#85  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 05, 2020 5:16 pm

laklak wrote:The National Basketball Association has released a list of "approved" social justice messages for players jerseys.

You can't make this shit up. Welcome to the Revolution! But first, a word from our sponsors....

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-shares-approved-social-justice-statements-for-the-back-of-players-jerseys-at-disney-restart-per/

Given the NBA's treatment of college athletes, I am not at all surprised.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#86  Postby laklak » Jul 05, 2020 6:21 pm

It would truly be hard to be more hypocritical than the NBA.

I wonder if they have an approved list of slogans for China?
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#87  Postby Ironclad » Jul 05, 2020 7:16 pm

arugula2 wrote:Still catching up.

Link
Ironclad wrote:[...]
Black Panther, the character, was excellent in the Civil War movie and was full of personality. Yet the solo movie was shit. Again, a poor script, and a strangely hollow Black Panther (and some horrible CGI) bummed out this highly anticipated movie.

Consensus broken, then, if there was one. I barely even remember the character in Civil War. He is less present there, is about all that stands out to me about him. Is it a case of less is more? Or perhaps the presence of a somewhat-interesting Black Panther antagonist (which goes against the code of superhero filmmaking)?

Captain Marvel was boring but mostly passable.[...]

Idk what this means, truly. ‘Boring’ is among the stronger pejoratives I can think of, for a movie. (And agreed, this one’s especially boring.)

It was Larson’s behaviours before and after the movie that got backs up. Have you seen her in interview with the rest of the Avengers cast? It’s creepy.

I have noticed her being abrasive... but the part in bold surely is mostly selective projection onto the general backlash? What was she responding to? And in what universe is backlash against a movie bc of supposed off-screen personality clash not an example of manbaby behavior (and of cancel culture)?

She was at an award ceremony, or somesuch, and dismissed a journalist as being white, male, and old. He was in his 40s. The movie in question, she tells the audience, was not made for him so he has no right to have an opinion. The movie was a ‘girls’ movie starring mostly black actors, apparently. It didn’t do very well at the box office. Ghostbusters did poorly too, and i think you’d be foolish to blame man babies for a global flop. But if it works for you, crack on.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#88  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 7:16 pm

laklak wrote:The National Basketball Association has released a list of "approved" social justice messages for players jerseys.

You can't make this shit up. Welcome to the Revolution! But first, a word from our sponsors....

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-shares-approved-social-justice-statements-for-the-back-of-players-jerseys-at-disney-restart-per/

It is a business, and the players are businesspeople... If you were to run a sim based on nothing but these two factors, plus negotiations between the union & the league... what's the likeliest outcome?
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#89  Postby Ironclad » Jul 05, 2020 7:19 pm

laklak wrote:The National Basketball Association has released a list of "approved" social justice messages for players jerseys.

You can't make this shit up. Welcome to the Revolution! But first, a word from our sponsors....

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-shares-approved-social-justice-statements-for-the-back-of-players-jerseys-at-disney-restart-per/

“I am a man” :lol:
Huh? :ask:


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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#90  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 7:33 pm

Ironclad wrote:
arugula2 wrote:
It was Larson’s behaviours before and after the movie that got backs up. Have you seen her in interview with the rest of the Avengers cast? It’s creepy.

I have noticed her being abrasive... but the part in bold surely is mostly selective projection onto the general backlash? What was she responding to? And in what universe is backlash against a movie bc of supposed off-screen personality clash not an example of manbaby behavior (and of cancel culture)?

She was at an award ceremony, or somesuch, and dismissed a journalist as being white, male, and old. He was in his 40s. The movie in question, she tells the audience, was not made for him so he has no right to have an opinion. The movie was a ‘girls’ movie starring mostly black actors, apparently. It didn’t do very well at the box office. Ghostbusters did poorly too, and i think you’d be foolish to blame man babies for a global flop. But if it works for you, crack on.

Er... no. I didn't have any notion about how well or poorly it did. I was taking cues only from your post:

Ironclad wrote:It amuses me no end, that when some folk hit back at the constant woke-a-rama they get speedily described in such terms as used in the early posts in this thread; fanboys, crybabies, manbabies, etc etc. They are essentially told, you can’t complain and if you do we’ll hold up a mirror and use your words as a unique attack back.
The new Star Wars was widely criticised as dull, poorly written and plagiarised cack. It failed to shine and the motherlode (the toys) failed to glitter. The harsh critics were damned as “man-babies”.
Black Panther, the character, was excellent in the Civil War movie and was full of personality. Yet the solo movie was shit. Again, a poor script, and a strangely hollow Black Panther (and some horrible CGI) bummed out this highly anticipated movie.
Captain Marvel was boring but mostly passable. It was Larson’s behaviours before and after the movie that got backs up. Have you seen her in interview with the rest of the Avengers cast? It’s creepy.


"It was Larson's behaviours before and after the movie that got backs up" <-- You weren't saying had anything to do with those people deciding not to go watch it (or deciding to downvote the movie) then? It would clarify the grammar for me, in the context.

You brought up floppiness... I wasn't interested before (only in the behavior of people reacting to her vis a vis watching or not watching a movie, or rating a movie poorly). But I see her dreadful movie did about as well as Iron Man 3, which outperformed the previous 2 Iron Man movies... and did much better than Marvel's Spider-Man: Homecoming, and outperformed Thor: Ragnarok by about as much (which in turn outperformed the 2 previous Thor movies). I'm comparing the "solo" hero stuff, rather than mixed comparisons with ensemble-hero stuff. I'm confused.

(And an aside: yeah, her attitude in that meeting was shitty... what a brat.)

Added: Oooohhh... you weren't assuming my pov re: Captain Marvel sales... you were assuming my pov re: a movie I haven't ever commented on. Aha. Clarified. Nvm then.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#91  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 7:37 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Given the NBA's treatment of college athletes, I am not at all surprised.

I'm totally out of the loop (I don't follow basketball closely). Did you mean NCAA, or..? Is this industry more complex than I imagined?
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#92  Postby Ironclad » Jul 05, 2020 7:42 pm

I wasn’t particularly addressing you.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#93  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 7:47 pm

Oof. There's my literalism again. "If you" as in "If one". Got it. :P
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#94  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 7:54 pm

Personally (and now I'm not 100% sure if I'd seen that snooty exchange before or after watching the movie) I found it a quasi-interesting exercise to let her outside persona inform my impression of her acting. Gods know, the movie itself wasn't keeping me awake on its own. Anyway... it was an interesting little infusion of meta-4th-wall-breaking. Her persona actually does inform the character. I can't say it's a bad thing, given the character itself is written to justify such an attitude. In an otherwise flat story, I thought this was the only potentially-interesting story element, and that if the sequel ever shows up, it should become a more central part of the script. (Unlike, for example, when she was nothing but a lame deus ex machina in Endgame.)

Added: but the question still stands, about actual downvoting & possible boycotting. The downvoting is surely a manbaby/cancel-culture behavior, even if it's an expression of ire against an actors' shitty attitude. This doesn't seem controversial to me. Suuuuuper boring, if you ask me. But plain.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#95  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 8:14 pm

To preempt a certain counterargument re: the NBA style of negotiations... If we boil things down to brass tacks, the dismissiveness hinges on an assumption of spontaneity. (Unless the China comment is supposed to hint that the players were generally dissatisfied with this particular outcome, which is a lot to assume. I, for one, doubt it.)

But I wanted to draw a parallel, to address spontaneity. Protest isn't generally spontaneous. Some protestors "show up" spontaneously. A lot more may show up semi-spontaneously, that is on very short notice. In the long run, my guess is the vast majority of protestors (NBA players included) "show up" in a more deliberate fashion. Aside from the smallest group, there is always some planning involved, at all levels of organization (even individuals). The NBA players would be to street protests what civic groups or professional associations already are. Such groups are the likeliest to first deliberate internally about rules and limitations of members' participation, and agree on a plan. The only question is whether the balance of power is greatly slanted to the top, or if the ordinary members' collective will is fairly represented in the outcome (ie, if the union did right by its relevant members, and if the members generally feel satisfied with the plan).
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#96  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 05, 2020 8:46 pm

arugula2 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:Given the NBA's treatment of college athletes, I am not at all surprised.

I'm totally out of the loop (I don't follow basketball closely). Did you mean NCAA, or..? Is this industry more complex than I imagined?

Yes, the NCAA.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#97  Postby Animavore » Jul 05, 2020 9:10 pm

Ironclad wrote:She was at an award ceremony, or somesuch, and dismissed a journalist as being white, male, and old. He was in his 40s. The movie in question, she tells the audience, was not made for him so he has no right to have an opinion. The movie was a ‘girls’ movie starring mostly black actors, apparently.


That is not what happened at all. Not even remotely. That's literally the twisted version the YouTube manbabies were parading. It's based on a quotemine and there was no 40 year-old white male reporter. You were either told a lie or you misremember the incident.

I posted a video on the first page debunking all of this.

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/gener ... l#p2751545
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#98  Postby Hermit » Jul 05, 2020 9:19 pm

laklak wrote:It would truly be hard to be more hypocritical than the NBA.

Have you considered the possibility that Nike is behind this?

I'm thinking the company is attempting to reposition its image for the sake of increased sales / profit like Gillette did not so long ago. Nike is basketball's biggest sponsor. He who pays the piper...
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#99  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 9:30 pm

Animavore wrote:
Ironclad wrote:She was at an award ceremony, or somesuch, and dismissed a journalist as being white, male, and old. He was in his 40s. The movie in question, she tells the audience, was not made for him so he has no right to have an opinion. The movie was a ‘girls’ movie starring mostly black actors, apparently.


That is not what happened at all. Not even remotely. That's literally the twisted version the YouTube manbabies were parading. It's based on a quotemine and there was no 40 year-old white male reporter. You were either told a lie or you misremember the incident.

I posted a video on the first page debunking all of this.

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/gener ... l#p2751545


Yeah, the embellishments are always weird (eg, that she was directing it at a journalist, etc... it's easier to feel entitled to outrage when you can identify a specific victim). However, her attitude was still a reflection of what the manbabies do. I find the video's edit particularly interesting: "...this style of argument is best summarized by your friend and mine: The Quartering". Cut to the jagoff manbaby himself: "We. Don't. Care. We don't care what you have to say about politics. Given the option... you should pass on these questions."

It's the claiming of domains, in both cases. She'll always have the better argument, because she's touching upon intrinsic bias, and underrepresentation, which can slant movie criticism. She's just crass about it, adopting the language of exclusive domains, even if her argument is broader than that. A pretty silly statement, if well-meaning. But who knows... maybe it serves a greater purpose, which is to trigger manbabies and expose them. After all, this transition to the 23rd century is bound to be painful. Whatever brings it on more quickly, I stand behind. I recruited as many people as possible to watch the movie with me (I think we were ~ 10-12) specifically to piss on their cause.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#100  Postby Ironclad » Jul 05, 2020 9:52 pm

Animavore wrote:
Ironclad wrote:She was at an award ceremony, or somesuch, and dismissed a journalist as being white, male, and old. He was in his 40s. The movie in question, she tells the audience, was not made for him so he has no right to have an opinion. The movie was a ‘girls’ movie starring mostly black actors, apparently.


That is not what happened at all. Not even remotely. That's literally the twisted version the YouTube manbabies were parading. It's based on a quotemine and there was no 40 year-old white male reporter. You were either told a lie or you misremember the incident.

I posted a video on the first page debunking all of this.

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/gener ... l#p2751545

Sure sure, but have you watched the clip itself? Does Larson have no particular critic/journalist in mind then, she’s just dismissing any and all 40 year old white dudes? It appears reasonably clear to me she has someone in mind otherwise why throttle it down to that narrow a field? (love the little ethnic head bobble she does, gets a laugh eh)
Here; 0330 onwards. But watch it all.

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