On social justice and social justice warriors

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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#61  Postby arugula2 » Jul 04, 2020 9:23 pm

laklak wrote:And again. People getting all pissed off about a manufactured controversy over the patterns on the paper cups a fucking coffee shop is using during the Winter Solstice. Apparently it offends someone's imaginary friend. Or the imaginary friend offends someone else. It's ridiculous. No serious person gives a single shit about any of it.

Once again- grow the fuck up, get a fucking life.

It's somewhat contradictory... a "serious" person is exactly who gives a shit about it, and exactly who's likely to act on the rage the non-controversy elicits. In the sbux example, the Breitbart jagoff is likely having fun, and there's a good chance the fb jagoff was having fun as well. The problem is, conservative-minded people tend to lack a sense of irony, especially about themselves... so the target demographic for these 2 jagoffs are "serious" people who don't know how to not take things seriously. They do have a life. It's just exceedingly miserable.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#62  Postby laklak » Jul 04, 2020 9:32 pm

Pretty much every "controversy" is some jagoff doing this or that or the other thing, and some other jagoffs getting all hot and bothered about it because somebody is wrong on the internet!. Not much of it amounts to, well, much.

I dunno, maybe I am too old for this shit, it all seems so fucking stupid. Maybe that's why God invented sativa and indica, and tequila. Oh, and beer. It does seems to help.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#63  Postby Mike_L » Jul 04, 2020 9:36 pm

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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#64  Postby OlivierK » Jul 04, 2020 10:55 pm

MattHunX wrote:
Fallible wrote:People scream labels? Oh, no! So...what, offended is also not liking hearing labels screamed, and so much so that you have to make some point about the people who do it and their unreasonableness? I just find it so funny that the status quo exists unchallenged for generations and only after great, unforgivable harms are done over and over again do some people get to the point of screaming labels, and it’s only that, the label screaming, which elicits criticism. Like we’re supposed to see shouting about injustice as THE problem. Pff. Give over.

Um...you misunderstood what my problem is with. It's not with people shouting about injustice. It's not with them labeling others, per say. It's about who they do it too and why, but only when they're completely wrong about it, since the person or work they're attacking and labeling is undeserving of it. In my lengthy post, I explain all that.

I never said, nor do I think I have ever even remotely given the impression that people who finally got fed up with social injustice are doing something wrong in their addressing of it, WHEN they're on the money, when they're attacking those that need and deserve attacking, that is. I clearly made the distinction. Where did I imply, in everything I said, that any one of us is just supposed to see shouting about injustice as the problem. Shouting about injustice isn't the problem. When people grossly misdirect all that pent up frustration and target those entirely undeserving of it and rope them into a fight, that's where we have and where any decent, rational and level-headed (or not necessarily level-headed) person should have a problem. After all, isn't it perfectly sensible that when some get attacked for something and it is completely unjustified and unwarranted that the source of the conflict and misunderstanding or the mishandling of the situation is pointed out to both sides? Granted, the language therein can make a difference.

In my experience, the term SJW is usually used precisely to dismiss those with legitimate social justice concerns by equating all people concerned about social justice with a tiny percentage of overreachers. From what you write, you seem to get that that's a dick move. So stop using the dog-whistle language of those that do it, is my advice, or you'll look like a dick, too.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#65  Postby The_Metatron » Jul 04, 2020 10:57 pm

Whatever happened to Atheism-Plus?
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#66  Postby OlivierK » Jul 04, 2020 11:07 pm

It's the only forum left on the internet, because all the others were closed by cancel culture.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#67  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jul 05, 2020 2:15 am

arugula2 wrote:Link
I'm With Stupid wrote:...Every year we had to sit through the "war on Christmas" stories claiming that we weren't allowed to say Christmas any more...

The Starbucks version is fabricated, as it turns out. Midwifed by the Grey Lady herself. A lovely example of mass brainlessness. Here's a brief timeline:

1.
Nov 5, 2015: the jagoff who kickstarted it with a facebook video.

2.
Mollie Hemingway reporting 5 days later in the (ultra conservative, as it happens) The Federalist, tracing the idea back to:

3.
A somewhat tongue-in-cheek Nov 5 article "War on Christmas" in Breitbart.

(So, to reconstruct: a jagoff at Breitbart essentially trolled their own readership; a jagoff reader was trolled by said trolling (or saw a marketing opportunity); jagoff #2 then made a fb video; and because fb was still the eminent grandaddy of useless information at the time, the video was a hit.)

4.
(It turns out, sbux has had special holiday-themed cups since at least 1997.)

5.
Five days after the controversy, spoof site Dandy Goat published a spoof piece titled "Starbucks CEO admits plot to lure customers into Satanism".

6.
Snopes addressed said "controversy" almost exactly a year later (2016)... because...

7.
A conspiracy website re-posted the Dandy Goat claim as real ("Starbucks Unveils New Satanic Holiday Cups")

8.
Fast-forward to 2017, and The New York Times publishes the article "Starbucks Is Criticized for Its Holiday Cups. Yes, Again."

9.
The aforementioned conservative Federalist reporter finds the sourcing for said NYT piece consisted of a single tweet by someone with 16 followers ... which the Times didn't even cite in the article, but which was mentioned in articles the piece linked to.

I don't know about America, but in the UK the one I really remember was Winterval. Which was actually a promotional event for a shopping mall or something, but was reported as the local council "erasing Christmas."
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#68  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jul 05, 2020 2:30 am

Animavore wrote:No one calls people with legitimate criticism manbabies. If you aren't aware of the overboard reactions of some people you are luckily out of touch. You missed out on the people who threw a fit on the trailer of Star Wars a year before it was even out because it had a black stormtrooper. The people who downvoted Black Panther on IMdB before it was out. The ones who railed against an all female Ghostbusters when it was announced before it even went into production. The people who dedicated whole vidoes to Brie Larson having a flat arse and not smiling. The ones who complained about the 'butch' design of She-Ra months before arriving on Netflix. The ones who went mental at the trailer of Battlefield V because it featured a woman on the trailer. The ones who bullied Leslie Jones and Kelly Tran off Twitter over Ghostbusters and Star Wars with racial abuse.
Etc. Etc.

These are who are being referred to as the reactionary right manbabies.

And babies specifically because they're typically moaning about things from their childhood that are still obviously primarily aimed at children. You can just about understand moaning about Star Wars, because at least they might watch that. But She-ra, ffs? It's a kids' show that was originally an extended advert for a range of toys. If you're criticising that, then you're obviously doing it to make a point, not because you have legitimate criticisms of some of the creative choices.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#69  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 4:20 am

Link
MattHunX wrote:[...]
But, then, you choose to bring up examples like Ben Shapiro and people who are racists and bigots, actually racist comedians and people in the media, mentioning them almost if not completely in the same breath with e.g.: Burr and Chappelle, like their situation is the same. They cannot be compared, because if and when people would demand the cancellation of Shapiro et al, guess what, they'd be in the right in doing so, because their opinions, career and views ARE harmful, because they ARE what the people label them they are.
[...]

No they're not. See what I did there? (Probably not, because in that post you claim to be leaving the thread. But I'm going to respond anyway.) If we are to judge people by what they claim about themselves, then "Shapiro et al" aren't racists. Who gets to make that call? You?

Call them racist, and they'll make rationalizations. They'll tell you how they come to their bread-and-butter complaints through avenues of logic and evidence. How, to deny the uncomfortable facts they're citing means you're naive or afraid to acknowledge what you know to be true, about people, motivations, social contracts, power, hollywood, etc. You could point to a millions-strong consensus claiming that they're racist, but you can't trust the consensus because it once burned you, and anyway they have one of their own claiming otherwise.

So, that is it. Unless they're flying Old Dixie, defending Confederate statues, calling for mass deportation of Muslims, lobbying for white nationalist policies, parroting/re-tweeting/shielding white supremacists, wearing KKK hoods or swastikas, nobody's racist except if they admit it. It's neat and simple. I like it.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#70  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 5:01 am

I was reminded of once hearing that the actor who played Starbuck in the original Battlestar Galactica was peeved that the new Starbuck was a woman... and I discover today that he actually vomited his thoughts into an article back in the day (2004). Naturally, it's reposted on Breitbart: "Lt. Starbuck … Lost In Castration."

I'm so glad the future's coming. I wish I were born 2 centuries from now.

Anyway, my retinas allowed me to absorb a few of his main points, and (boohoo) central to his psychosis is, of course, not the emasculation of Starbuck. Yes, he whines that the new version is too different (just as the reboot is too different from the original show). But he claims his problem with reboot-Starbuck is that she's gruff and manly, in contrast to his peaceful & jovial original (so basically, he has penis envy & now the title makes more sense, as anyone with painful uncertainty about his own manhood can find temporary relief by disparaging another person's genitalia. There's even a pointed comment about a "cigar"... how tragic.)

He then whines about how the women on the show make all the decisions, and the men cower. (False, in case anyone's wondering.) How morality used to be clear-cut, and the original show reflected this. How the new show's morality is ambiguous, messy, challenging. He must lash out. This is all happening too fast, it's too confusing... er, I mean... something-something-artistic, you see.

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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#71  Postby LucidFlight » Jul 05, 2020 6:47 am

I'm sure that he feels that he has a point and all that, and good on him for expressing his views. But, ackchyually, the rebooted Battlestar was surprisingly good, and "trueness" to any 70s Starbuck character faded into insignificance as Katee took on the role and gave it all that grit.

(Admittedly, I was slightly perturbed by her character to begin with.)
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#72  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 7:23 am

Just a general bad vibe?

Iirc in the beginning I liked her, and I like-hated Tigh. When Roslin showed up, initially I disliked her, found her confidence in her own instincts jarring. By late in the show, I “got” her, and the ‘spirituality’ of the show. I got what the writers were going for, and it felt natural & nuanced. Good fantasy/sci-fi. Starbuck sustained her dynamo persona, but it became clear that she had depth, and her grit was rooted in hidden pain, and then she... what? I don’t even know anymore. I just don’t know.

And Tigh became my favorite character in the show. Fucking love that guy. On rewatch, that role is brilliant & never loses its power.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#73  Postby OlivierK » Jul 05, 2020 7:26 am

Yeah, he just sounds pissed that the reboot was 100x better than the original.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#74  Postby LucidFlight » Jul 05, 2020 7:46 am

arugula2 wrote:Just a general bad vibe?

More, "Hey, that ain't Starbuck! Why she so angry?"

arugula2 wrote:And Tigh became my favorite character in the show. Fucking love that guy. On rewatch, that role is brilliant & never loses its power.


Yeah, that Tigh. He was a real... fighter.

Battlestar Galactica is one of the few sci-fi series I digitally own. Like, for real. I just checked my Apple TV. Might need to give that another watch.

(I secretly have Caprica in there as well.) :shhh:
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#75  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 7:56 am

Discovered both when Hulu was a free streaming service that showed only episodes that had recently aired. So it was season 3 or so (BSG) and it made no sense. Watched it properly in the Blockbuster days. Lost track of Caprica. I think I’ve only ever seen part of 1 episode.

Richard Hatch (Lee Adama in the original, Zarek in the reboot) describes having seen the pilot “movie” (BSG reboot) in an IMAX theater... that would be nice.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#76  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 8:00 am

The thing about Tigh is I never saw the acting, not for a moment. The cast as a whole was great (except for Lee... he’s terrible), but Tigh is pretty special.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#77  Postby Ironclad » Jul 05, 2020 11:47 am

The_Metatron wrote:Whatever happened to Atheism-Plus?

It moved here. And now were all triggered!
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#78  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 05, 2020 12:50 pm

Boy I'll say, look at Mike up there all triggered because the new She-Ra isn't white cis hetero enough for him! These anti-sjw's are the biggest snowflakes I've ever seen :lol:
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#79  Postby Fallible » Jul 05, 2020 1:10 pm

Well, someone liked it. I can’t imagine who. I really, really can’t.

I probably shouldn’t step back into this discussion. I’m coming in off the back of finishing reading ‘Why I’m No Longer Talking To White People About Race’, and am all SJ’d up.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#80  Postby arugula2 » Jul 05, 2020 2:19 pm

Still catching up.

Link
Ironclad wrote:[...]
Black Panther, the character, was excellent in the Civil War movie and was full of personality. Yet the solo movie was shit. Again, a poor script, and a strangely hollow Black Panther (and some horrible CGI) bummed out this highly anticipated movie.

Consensus broken, then, if there was one. I barely even remember the character in Civil War. He is less present there, is about all that stands out to me about him. Is it a case of less is more? Or perhaps the presence of a somewhat-interesting Black Panther antagonist (which goes against the code of superhero filmmaking)?

Captain Marvel was boring but mostly passable.[...]

Idk what this means, truly. ‘Boring’ is among the stronger pejoratives I can think of, for a movie. (And agreed, this one’s especially boring.)

It was Larson’s behaviours before and after the movie that got backs up. Have you seen her in interview with the rest of the Avengers cast? It’s creepy.

I have noticed her being abrasive... but the part in bold surely is mostly selective projection onto the general backlash? What was she responding to? And in what universe is backlash against a movie bc of supposed off-screen personality clash not an example of manbaby behavior (and of cancel culture)?
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