Thank god it is your money.

I invested around £4000 in crypto, and I think I'm sitting on a goldmine.
Crypto has suffered a decline since the hype last year, but it's gaining back territory. I think the price will skyrocket when the next global economic collapse is going to come, which is sometime 2020.
If you are looking for some advice, I say invest in ethereum, the smart contract capability long overtakes the king bitcoin which is just a currency. Also, I looked at a few ICOs (initial coin offering). Syngularity NET has the most advanced AI out there, and has its own coin too.

I am sceptical.

To be fair, it didn't make me laugh quite as hard as this did:

jamest wrote:...the facts that:
...
2) The US $ is close to crumbling.
3) We are on the verge of a major financial shitstorm. Don't take my word for it, do your own research.
4) During such shitstorms, governments will collude with banks to do whatever it takes to sustain centralised power. They'll even rob their citizens if they have to.

Scot Dutchy wrote:Thank god it is your money.

Well, it's not my own money, it belongs to the government, which is why the sirens are blaring and I'm seeking alternative investments. Though, to be fair, investing in gold (which is the post you seem to be responding to) is not a mug's game. Much smarter and wealthier people than you and I have been investing in that substance for millennia.

Jesus. This whole thread.

Please, people, don't put anything in that you can't afford to lose.

bogdan9310 wrote:I invested around £4000 in crypto, and I think I'm sitting on a goldmine.
Crypto has suffered a decline since the hype last year, but it's gaining back territory. I think the price will skyrocket when the next global economic collapse is going to come, which is sometime 2020.

The price of crypto doesn't necessarily hinge upon global economic collapse, hence December 2017. I've recently invested about three times as much as you. The bears are still hammering upon the door, so we shall see.

If you are looking for some advice, I say invest in ethereum, the smart contract capability long overtakes the king bitcoin which is just a currency. Also, I looked at a few ICOs (initial coin offering). Syngularity NET has the most advanced AI out there, and has its own coin too.

I've only invested in bitcoin and ethereum so far, but I wouldn't have invested in bitcoin at all in terms of its fundamentals. For me, bitcoin is akin to gold - an alternative store of value to fiat. With (now) a less than 20 million supply limit and by far the largest volume of any crypto (currently more than 50% of the whole market) which I consider to be hugely significant.
Once I'm sure the bear market is over I will probably invest in EOS as its fundamentals seem better than ethereum. Also, I like IOTA, for the reason that it's different.
There's a lot of interest in Ripple XRP but it's too centralised and bank-orientated for my liking. I'm therefore avoiding it like the plague.

What most people don't seem to understand is that a financial revolution is underway, which in the future will be talked about within the same book as the industrial revolution. That's precisely why/how crypto emerged about a decade ago and has become increasingly useful, notwithstanding the blockchain technology which underpins it. More and more institutions are becoming involved. Even JP Morgan has recently poked his/its finger in the pie.

Even the gold card I mentioned is something relatively new, offering people a chance to conduct their finances beyond the parameters of fiat. I mean, why pay for something in £ or $ when you can get it cheaper by paying in gold? It's a no brainer, but most people have this 'normalcy bias' and are way too conservative and unadventurous to be included amongst the list of pioneers within any space. What most people do is buy into something at the top when it's popular and proven, when it's too late and about to 'pop'. Well, crypto has already popped twice significantly, within the last 5 years or so. However, prior to its next pop, one thing is certain: that even though the bottom is not yet affirmed for this current bear market, hindsight will surely tell us that the first half-year of 2019 was the next best time to buy crypto preceeding the next pop.

minininja wrote:Jesus. This whole thread.

Please, people, don't put anything in that you can't afford to lose.

Yeah, instead, leave your whole wealth invested within fiat and government, when history shows that ALL fiat has always failed for millennia within a few decades and that governments will always take the piss and actually steal your wealth from you when the shit hits the fan!!!! I've presented two credible links to support this view and not a single one of you has addressed them, so I'm fucking astounded by your attitude.

As I said, we're amidst a major financial revolution here, no joke. You're being presented with opportunities to place an egg or two in a basket which makes your wealth independent of any finite government's control. The next 2008 is close and will be much worse, so think hard about that.

Thommo wrote:I am sceptical.

To be fair, it didn't make me laugh quite as hard as this did:

jamest wrote:...the facts that:
...
2) The US $ is close to crumbling.
3) We are on the verge of a major financial shitstorm. Don't take my word for it, do your own research.
4) During such shitstorms, governments will collude with banks to do whatever it takes to sustain centralised power. They'll even rob their citizens if they have to.

Again, I have provided historically factual links to support my arguments, and you've just ignored them.

You have NO RIGHT to laugh at what I've posted whilst your head is still stuck up your arse, Sir.

jamest wrote:Yeah, instead, leave your whole wealth invested within fiat and government, when history shows that ALL fiat has always failed for millennia within a few decades...

This is patently untrue. It's so obvious and easily checkable that there's simply no point arguing.

The four most traded currencies in the world are the United States dollar (instituted 1792), the Euro (instituted 1999/2002), the Japanese yen (instituted 1871) and the Pound sterling (complicated, but centuries old)*. All of them still exist and still function, and in the last century or so only one of them has undergone a "failure" even approaching the "failure" of bitcoin within the last two years, which was the Yen, about 70 years ago following being on the losing side of the most catastrophic war the world has ever seen.

To portray this in the way you do is beyond warped. You quoted a single example of the US government forcibly purchasing some gold from citizens over a century ago, this is not remotely even in the weirdest fantasy world the same as every currency failing within a few decades. It's total, 100% poppycock that nobody in their right mind believes.

You're ranting like a conspiracy theorist about governments stealing from people and making predictions, which by definition are not factual (they haven't happened yet and nobody knows if they will), and calling them facts. You're claiming that your link about gold failing is a reason to invest in gold instead of currency and goodness knows what else.

It's hilarious in the same way Glenn Beck is hilarious.

Not to mention that you assume all my assets are stored as cash in the first place, which again is a bizarre, illogical assumption founded on nothing.

*And if you want to you can look up when exactly those currencies technically became fiat rather than tradeable for gold via the gold standard if you want, and check whether any has "failed" since then.

Thommo wrote:

jamest wrote:Yeah, instead, leave your whole wealth invested within fiat and government, when history shows that ALL fiat has always failed for millennia within a few decades...

This is patently untrue. It's so obvious and easily checkable that there's simply no point arguing.

The four most traded currencies in the world are the United States dollar (instituted 1792), the Euro (instituted 1999/2002), the Japanese yen (instituted 1871) and the Pound sterling (complicated, but centuries old)*.

Please, don't be a dummy. I was obviously talking about currencies being their own standard independent of anything else. This was made clear within the links provided, which you clearly haven't read. It's not about the longevity of currencies per se, but about their ability to survive independently of any other standard (like the US dollar is currently trying to do, since 1971, regards Gold). I.e., they're not backed by or based upon other assets/currencies.

You're an intelligent bloke squire, but I'm far from impressed with your comments here. Like me (6 months ago), you obviously need to immerse yourself within some serious reading. Good night to you.

ETA: Indeed, do some research regarding what a fiat currency is.

jamest wrote:

Thommo wrote:

jamest wrote:Yeah, instead, leave your whole wealth invested within fiat and government, when history shows that ALL fiat has always failed for millennia within a few decades...

This is patently untrue. It's so obvious and easily checkable that there's simply no point arguing.

The four most traded currencies in the world are the United States dollar (instituted 1792), the Euro (instituted 1999/2002), the Japanese yen (instituted 1871) and the Pound sterling (complicated, but centuries old)*.

Please, don't be a dummy. I was obviously talking about currencies being their own standard independent of anything else. This was made clear within the links provided, which you clearly haven't read. It's not about the longevity of currencies per se, but about their ability to survive independently of any other standard (like the US dollar is currently trying to do, since 1971, regards Gold). I.e., they're not backed by or based upon other assets/currencies.

Argumentum ad gibberish.

What you said was wrong. Those are the four most traded fiat currencies, none have failed. All have been going for at least a couple of decades.

No investment is completely safe. Everything is only worth what you can sell it for, gold and bitcoin included. If people lose faith in bitcoin it can collapse by 80% or more in a short space of time, just like a share and just like a fiat currency (except over recent history it's proven more susceptible). The fact that Sterling inflation runs at 2% a year is of no concern if my savings account pays 2.5% per year. If you're the sort of investor that relies on this kind of superficial comparison with mattress stuffing then I hope to goodness you've touched your lucky rabbit foot and rubbed your horseshoe on the way to bed - because what you need is luck: you're gambling.

You might get lucky, nowhere have I said you won't - indeed I wished you luck (although your habitual hostility and condescension have made it increasingly hard to feel for you). But that doesn't stop the complete category error of calling wild predictions "facts" being hilarious, nor does it stop this false version of history being laugh out loud funny.

one born every nano-second never twas so true....

You really need to do some reading Jamest. You have a limited case for hedging due to Brexit so gold is a decent hedge.

You can make money with bitcoin without risk by brokering - my biz partner paid off all his debts in two years and is making decent money without ever speculating on bitcoin ....there are just enough people that want to gamble in both directions that he can take a house cut. It has benefitted us as he loans us capital ( at reasonable interest rate ) from time to time to buy Macs we need and has increased his capital and his ability to float us.

arbitrageDictionary result for arbitrage
/ˈɑːbɪtrɪdʒ,ˌɑːbɪˈtrɑːʒ/Submit
ECONOMICS
noun
1.
the simultaneous buying and selling of securities, currency, or commodities in different markets or in derivative forms in order to take advantage of differing prices for the same asset.
"profitable arbitrage opportunities"

It's a form of arbitrage - my riding partner quit his engineering job in Australia to trade curriencies on a low risk strategy that requires pretty in depth understanding of the trading environment and willing to take little tiny bites of profit at a time.

Both these gentlemen are very savvy both in the international trading markets and risk management.

These days of instant trades arbitrage on goods is difficult and on currencies only provides a very small profit window and requires some serious math and computer skills to come out ahead.
My partner's strategy is a trust network that takes time to build as the bit coin is toxic to the banks.

Block chain as a technology certainly has current and future import for many situations as a way to track things even photos.

How Blockchain Will Change Photography — Artnome
https://www.artnome.com/news/2018/3/4/h ... hotography
Mar 8, 2018 - The world will take over 1 trillion photographs in 2018. Almost all of them will remain digital and never be printed. Blockchain enables us to ...

it is certainly needed in stock exchanges where settlement of trades is a huge bottleneck.

Blockchain, the technology underlying bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, was designed with an ideological aim: to sidestep central authorities and governments. But many people have become intrigued by its practical uses, such as updating back-office processes. And few institutions have shown more interest in such applications than financial exchanges.

Although stock trades are often made in milliseconds by algorithms, completing them involves co-ordinating payment and delivery among a mess of databases and then reconciling the records. In big financial centres trades take two full days to settle. Some stock exchanges wonder whether blockchain’s distributed, tamper-proof ledgers and immutable and transparent transaction records could speed up and simplify the process.

Exchanges from America and Australia to Switzerland and Singapore are studying the concept. Australia’s stock exchange, the asx, has moved furthest towards using blockchain to replace its main clearing and settlement platform. It has been testing technology from Digital Asset, an American firm, and will go live in mid-2021. And on November 11th sgx, Singapore’s stock exchange, and the Monetary Authority of Singapore (mas), its central bank, announced a prototype using blockchain for delivery, payment and settlement of assets.

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-e ... blockchain

By all means take 10% of your windfall and take whatever flyer you want but recognize you are gambling. I think a gold hedge is reasonable given Brexit and Brexit will offer savvy traders some real opportunities as well as risks,

For the 90% find a couple of international indexes with decent track records or some dividend companies ( Apple has more money than god and there is a stock value upside just now ) and put it in and forget about it.

This is a good assessment of the two big guns, Amazon and Apple.
https://cabotwealth.com/daily/growth-st ... etter-buy/

Now there is a 25% chance of a world level recession and certainly UK it is self inflicted

Two places you should pay attention to are for macro trends

Paul Krugman
http://www.krugmanonline.com

and The Economist
https://www.economist.com/subscribe?country

I can't comment on investing whatever windfall you have beyond suggested dividend stocks not subject to Brexit turmoil. But Bitcoin is pure casino as far as speculation is concerned


but if you really want some Bitcoin my partner can likely provide.

Thommo wrote:

jamest wrote:

Thommo wrote:

jamest wrote:Yeah, instead, leave your whole wealth invested within fiat and government, when history shows that ALL fiat has always failed for millennia within a few decades...

This is patently untrue. It's so obvious and easily checkable that there's simply no point arguing.

You're starting to make a tit of yourself. The claim is that no fiat currency has ever survived for more than a few decades devoid of backing from other currencies/assets. This claim goes back to at least the time of the Roman Empire and I've provided a credible link to support that fact.

It's clear to me that you don't even know what's being discussed here. You're akin to a physicist born in 19th century scorning quantum mechanics in the 1920s. I can forgive the naivity, but your arrogance is a fucking joke.

I've taken the time to seriously educate myself in these matters for the last 6 months. It's clear to all here that you don't even know what colour the greenback is. It's also clear that you cannot be arsed to read links provided as a basis for a serious argument, as if you did then this nonsense about currencies lasting for far more than decades wouldn't even be mentioned.

I will resist the urge to call you a muppet as I know from the previous 6 months that comprehending financial markets is up there with comprehending quantum mechanics, but I will definitely NOT forgive you for taking no time (again) to educate yourself when it's been repeatedly pointed out that you're talking through your arse.

For the FINAL time, the claim that ALL fiat currency has failed within recorded history is wrt its ability to survive independently of any other asset/currency. Since Roman times, ALL currencies attempting to do this like the US dollar (and UK pound) have failed within a handful of decades. Note again that the US dollar has only been trying to do this since 1971!!!!

It's time for you to either educate yourself or else join the popcorn queue. But please ffs don't come back here and talk any more bollocks or else I'm going to the freezer.

Double post.

jamest wrote:

Thommo wrote:

This is patently untrue. It's so obvious and easily checkable that there's simply no point arguing.

You're starting to make a tit of yourself. The claim is that no fiat currency has ever survived for more than a few decades devoid of backing from other currencies/assets.

No. That is not what you said, and it's fucking tiresome to have you pretend it was and that somehow you contradicting yourself makes me "look like a tit".

Here's what you said:

jamest wrote:history shows that ALL fiat has always failed for millennia within a few decades

This is not true. Not in the slightest. The modern era of fiat currency started in 1971 when Nixon unlinked the US$ from gold. Since then, to name just one example of one currency that has survived decades (all the years since) without "backing from other currencies/assets" and without "failing": the US dollar. And that's to ignore the utter sophistry and superficiality of pretending modern economics including the attendant opportunities and demands of currency and technological faciliation is just the same as what's happened "for millenia".

The reason the dollar became fiat, rather than linked to a gold standard is that (in a sense) linking it to gold failed: the currency could not meet the demands of the economy. Albeit this was not the kind of ludicrous overblown full on economic collapse about which you've ranted and raved in blusterous but vague and inexpert terms.

How long will the US dollar persist in its current state in the future? Nobody knows. Albeit in a spectacular example of Duning-Kruger you've decided that you do because you took a two-bit internet course. And C&P'd some advertising copy from blokes selling crypotcurrencies that you swallowed wholesale.

jamest wrote:It's clear to all here that you don't even know what colour the greenback is.

It's great that you've adopted the language of the crank websites and conspiracy theorists, to make it maximally obvious where you're getting this from.

jamest wrote:It's also clear that you cannot be arsed to read links provided as a basis for a serious argument, as if you did then this nonsense about currencies lasting for far more than decades wouldn't even be mentioned.

I did read them, not that you've provided serious links. You googled up a few things that vaguely support weaker versions of what you're saying and then misrepresented them consistently and spammed one of them over and over - you haven't even accepted that one of your major points was about how the US government seized gold (and therefore you're safe buying gold but not dollars).

Anyway, here's the full set of links you've provided:
https://multi-act.com/evolution-of-mone ... cy-system/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... el-roubini
https://www.thebalance.com/gold-price-history-3305646

And yes, I read them.

jamest wrote:For the FINAL time, the claim that ALL fiat currency has failed within recorded history is wrt its ability to survive independently of any other asset/currency.

What is wrong with you? I know that's the claim.

It's wrong. That's why I linked you four fiat currencies, not linked to any other asset or currency that have not failed and exist in recorded history. Jesus.

The classic example on these crank websites you think make you some kind of educated expert know-it-all is the Roman empire. Roman coinage didn't stop being used because of problems with fiat, it stopped being used because the empire collapsed after 500 years. Now, it is quite possible that Britain will stop existing in 500 years and the Pound Sterling will go out of use, but this is useless speculation, it does not tell you that Sterling is going to collapse tomorrow, next week, or in my life time, or that if it does it won't be possible to see it coming and escape.

If Sterling "only" lasts 80 years, I only live 50 and bitcoin loses 80% of its value over the next two years (again) you'll still be much worse off investing in bitcoin regardless of any superficial nonsense you spout about "fiat currencies always fail". They don't.

There are no guarantees, but some risks are bigger than others.

Macdoc wrote:one born every nano-second never twas so true....

You really need to do some reading Jamest. You have a limited case for hedging due to Brexit so gold is a decent hedge.

I'VE BEEN READING MY ARSE OFF FOR 6 MONTHS, you doughnut.

I can't comment on investing whatever windfall you have beyoind suggested dividend stocks not subject to Brexit turmoil. But Bitcoin is pure casino as far as speculation is concerned

Crypto is a mid/long-term investment for me, but already (within a fortnight) I'm up about 10% on my investments to date (even in a bear market). And just to put the record straight, anybody who had done some serious research into the fundamentals of blockchain technology wrt the shitty centralised system imposed upon us by our governments/banks, like myself, does not consider investment into crypto as a gamble. ONLY ignorant people would EVER say such a thing.

but if you really want some Bitcoin my partner can likely provide.

Since I like and trust you, get your partner to contact me if she can do any better than coinbase devoid of fees.

Macdoc wrote:I think a gold hedge is reasonable given Brexit and Brexit will offer savvy traders some real opportunities as well as risks

That's reasonable.

Thommo wrote:

jamest wrote:

Thommo wrote:

This is patently untrue. It's so obvious and easily checkable that there's simply no point arguing.

You're starting to make a tit of yourself. The claim is that no fiat currency has ever survived for more than a few decades devoid of backing from other currencies/assets.

No. That is not what you said...

.
It's getting quite late now and I have no more desire to address a long post.

I was considering just shoving a badger up your arse as a retort, but instead I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and will reply tomorrow. Good night to you.

jamest wrote:

Thommo wrote:

jamest wrote:

Thommo wrote:

This is patently untrue. It's so obvious and easily checkable that there's simply no point arguing.

You're starting to make a tit of yourself. The claim is that no fiat currency has ever survived for more than a few decades devoid of backing from other currencies/assets.

No. That is not what you said...

.
It's getting quite late now and I have no more desire to address a long post.

I was considering just shoving a badger up your arse as a retort, but instead I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and will reply tomorrow. Good night to you.

God, I hope you don't. You cut off me saying "that's not what you said" right before I quoted word for word exactly what you said. This kind of commitment to not having a straight conversation is frankly ludicrous.

Not strictly related to this squabble, but here's why timing of buying and selling matters and superficial observations don't help.

Suppose you bought gold 40 years ago at the start of the year, the price was $227.15 per ounce. Today that gold is worth $1,328.95 per ounce, or 5.82 times more.

Suppose instead you bought a tracker fund for the Dow Jones. The Dow Jones opened 1979 at 811.42. Today that index is worth 26,031.81, or 32.08 times more (admittedly there would be some modest margin losses as the portfolio updates).

Sitting on gold works if the market takes a sharp and unexpected dip. It has not worked over the medium/long term. Albeit it's better than mattress stuffing. Buying gold as a genuine hedge (to offset currency or stock shocks with genuine crises looming) is reasonable, but even then it really matters when you buy and sell.

If fiat currency carries on for even just another decade, avoiding it entirely could still result in massive relative losses. And bitcoin has nothing like the stability, underlying asset value or track record of gold. Falling for this marketing spiel that it's "digital gold" is an absolute epitome for the phrase "there's one born every minute". As investments they could barely have less in common.