Woman records 10 hours of harassment...

Thommo · **#81** by **Thommo** » Oct 30, 2014 6:34 pm

Alright, fair enough! :lol:

The_Piper · **#82** by **The_Piper** » Oct 30, 2014 9:07 pm

NamelessFaceless wrote:I'll tell you for $1.

Ok...that's not a very good con.

NamelessFaceless · **#83** by **NamelessFaceless** » Oct 30, 2014 9:19 pm

The_Piper wrote:
NamelessFaceless wrote:I'll tell you for $1.

Ok...that's not a very good con.

Jerome Da Gnome · **#84** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Oct 30, 2014 9:37 pm

I am sure I will get crushed for this, by why is the woman wearing clothes that are too small for her, generally when people are wearing clothes too small they are intentionally trying to get reactions to their sexuality by showing off their body.

NuclMan · **#85** by **NuclMan** » Oct 30, 2014 9:40 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:I am sure I will get crushed for this, by why is the woman wearing clothes that are too small for her, generally when people are wearing clothes too small they are intentionally trying to get reactions to their sexuality by showing off their body.

Thommo · **#86** by **Thommo** » Oct 30, 2014 9:44 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:I am sure I will get crushed for this, by why is the woman wearing clothes that are too small for her, generally when people are wearing clothes too small they are intentionally trying to get reactions to their sexuality by showing off their body.

She's not, and they aren't. :scratch:

Jerome Da Gnome · **#87** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Oct 30, 2014 9:47 pm

Are you denying that people dress provocatively for the purpose of getting attention? or that the person in the video is not wearing tight fitting provocative clothes?

This in no way excuses real harassment, which does happen, some of that was seen in the video, but that video seems kinda' like a dishonest set-up. Considering all the 'have a nice days' that are presented as harassment, and the need to use a person dressing as if they are looking for attention, over ten hours in New York .. it looks like an incredibly small problem.

Spearthrower · **#88** by **Spearthrower** » Oct 30, 2014 9:55 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:I am sure I will get crushed for this, by why is the woman wearing clothes that are too small for her, generally when people are wearing clothes too small they are intentionally trying to get reactions to their sexuality by showing off their body.

She's wearing jeans and a t-shirt! What's she supposed to wear? A burka?

Jerome Da Gnome · **#89** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Oct 30, 2014 10:06 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
She's wearing jeans and a t-shirt! What's she supposed to wear? A burka?

Of course not, and I had a feeling it would be taken in that direction, unfortunately.

The point is she is wearing clothes in the opposite extreme, clothes too small which 'show off' her body. Generally when people, regardless of gender, wear clothes that accentuate their physical bodies they are intentionally looking for attention. Considering this was purposeful to see what kind of attention they would get to promote a fundraising campaign for their organization, that just seems dishonest.

Thommo · **#90** by **Thommo** » Oct 30, 2014 10:07 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Are you denying that people dress provocatively for the purpose of getting attention? or that the person in the video is not wearing tight fitting provocative clothes?

Why are you asking me that? You made specific assertions and I answered, to whit:-

"why is the woman wearing clothes that are too small for her" - She's not
"generally when people are wearing clothes too small they are intentionally trying to get reactions to their sexuality by showing off their body" - they aren't

This is very different to saying that people never show off their bodies to get sexual attention.

Boyle · **#91** by **Boyle** » Oct 30, 2014 10:07 pm

Thommo wrote:Sorry, I don't buy it. There's no fucking way you know that's what the security guard or news stand vendor in the clip were doing. Nothing in the video suggests those guys are like your work friends (although, yes, I agree lots of men behave in that way, and some women too). The inclusion of such examples gives an impression of a wider scope but a reduced intensity, I question whether those features are genuine symptoms of the problem, which is clearly real.

As far as ulterior motives are concerned, again, I question the inference. I sincerely doubt a fat middle age to old man thinks he's getting laid by saying "have a nice day" or similar. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity, or in this case lack of thought.

No, I do not know that that's what they were doing. I suspect it, though it certainly can be argued that it is an unfair suspicion. Hell, I don't even think it's a fair suspicion, but it's one that leaps to my mind pretty quick.

I don't think any of those guys actually think they will get laid, but they might. It's a very slim chance, yes, but an opportunity ignored is an opportunity lost and you never know the answer til you ask. That certainly is a lack of thought in my mind.

Regarding the older guys: I've got an uncle that does things like say hi to beautiful women to the exclusion of others. Not because he thinks he'll get laid, he's simply an old man that loves talking to and being around attractive young women. It's pretty innocuous because he doesn't tend to stare or do any of that other bizarre shit in the video. It's still motivated by the fact that he thinks they are attractive, however. This isn't necessarily a negative thing, I simply find the distinction between old man/young man motivation to be a slim thing. The young men tend to be more rash about it, though old guys can be more brazen. Dirty old man stereotypes to live up to and all that.

I hate to link this in a discussion, but it really did strike a bit of a chord with me:

Obviously this is satire. The thing that struck me was when the congressman said "If there's even a small chance of getting off at any time, you gotta take it."

NamelessFaceless wrote:Regarding your work friends, it sounds like you may be in the best position to educate them that this is not an appropriate way to act.

If only it were that easy. Education is more than presenting facts. People need to be receptive of it as well. I did it in a subtle way, because a quick way to get labeled as a crazy sensitive idiot is to flip out* about something that others think of as a tiny insignificant act.

*You don't actually have to flip out. The folks you're talking to only need to see your reaction as incongruent to the situation.

Thommo · **#92** by **Thommo** » Oct 30, 2014 10:09 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Generally when people, regardless of gender, wear clothes that accentuate their physical bodies they are intentionally looking for attention.

There it is again.

No, generally not. Specifically she isn't showing off her body anyway, she's not even showing cleavage or an ankle!

Edit: typo

Jerome Da Gnome · **#93** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Oct 30, 2014 10:10 pm

Did you see any difference in the way each of these men are choosing to appear to others?

Do you think the one on the right is attempting to accentuate his body to gain attention from others?

Thommo · **#94** by **Thommo** » Oct 30, 2014 10:16 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Did you see any difference in the way each of these men are choosing to appear to others?

Do you think the one on the right is attempting to accentuate his body to gain attention from others?

I'll be honest with you, I can't tell what that man is thinking by looking at him, I can't read minds. I also don't know whether his attitudes are representative of women in general.

Presumably you're saying the other guy doesn't want attention, by whatever method it is that provides the insight into the guy on the right?

Jerome Da Gnome · **#95** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Oct 30, 2014 10:16 pm

Thommo wrote:
"why is the woman wearing clothes that are too small for her" - She's not
"generally when people are wearing clothes too small they are intentionally trying to get reactions to their sexuality by showing off their body" - they aren't

This is very different to saying that people never show off their bodies to get sexual attention.

Well, I guess that is a matter of opinion, but those are some tight jeans, she certainly didn't just 'slip' them on. Hell, we have advertizements that joke about wearing too tight of jeans because they make you more attractive.

Considering the purpose of the experiment was to get attention ... maybe if they used a number of different women wearing a number of different outfits it might be a honest portrayal, but they didn't. They are just trolling for donations it seems.

Thommo · **#96** by **Thommo** » Oct 30, 2014 10:17 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
Thommo wrote:
"why is the woman wearing clothes that are too small for her" - She's not
"generally when people are wearing clothes too small they are intentionally trying to get reactions to their sexuality by showing off their body" - they aren't

This is very different to saying that people never show off their bodies to get sexual attention.

Well, I guess that is a matter of opinion, but those are some tight jeans, she certainly didn't just 'slip' them on. Hell, we have advertizements that joke about wearing too tight of jeans because they make you more attractive.

Considering the purpose of the experiment was to get attention ... maybe if they used a number of different women wearing a number of different outfits it might be a honest portrayal, but they didn't. They are just trolling for donations it seems.

I agree that someone is trolling in all this.

You plucked this stuff out of thin air, you haven't given me a single reason to take seriously a thing you say, sorry.

Spearthrower · **#97** by **Spearthrower** » Oct 30, 2014 10:21 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
She's wearing jeans and a t-shirt! What's she supposed to wear? A burka?

Of course not, and I had a feeling it would be taken in that direction, unfortunately.

I am not taking it in any direction. She's wearing perfectly normal and acceptable clothing, it's completely opaque to me the notion that she's wearing anything that could be deemed provocative.

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:The point is she is wearing clothes in the opposite extreme, clothes too small which 'show off' her body.

Firstly, no she's not. She's wearing jeans and a t-shirt. Aside from her arms, hands, neck and face, there's nothing on view at all.

Jerome Da Gnome wrote: Generally when people, regardless of gender, wear clothes that accentuate their physical bodies they are intentionally looking for attention.

Or they like how they look and feel comfortable. But again, she's clearly not wearing anything that suggests she's trying to garner attention - she's not even showing any flesh!

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Considering this was purposeful to see what kind of attention they would get to promote a fundraising campaign for their organization, that just seems dishonest.

I think some of the things presented as part of the central argument were daft (Good morning? Harassment!), but the fact that what she's wearing, even though she's wearing perfectly acceptable clothing, isn't actually anything to do with the problem. It's the fact that she's sufficiently attractive to garner a man's attention regardless of what she's wearing. Garnering someone's attention, whether that be intentionally or not, does not justify being verbally abused and stalked. A guy just doing a double-take because he's genuinely attracted to her, but not acting in a harassing manner is just fine and I can't imagine many people having a problem with it - I am certainly not going to say that men shouldn't impulsively find women sexually attractive, or vice-versa, but it is a problem to suggest that she is in some way provoking that harassment because of her attire when that attire is clearly not sexualized in any way.

Boyle · **#98** by **Boyle** » Oct 30, 2014 10:22 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Did you see any difference in the way each of these men are choosing to appear to others?

Do you think the one on the right is attempting to accentuate his body to gain attention from others?

Are you serious? These two are on the set of a movie about Captain America. The one on the right (Chris Evans) is Captain America. They are between scenes and those are the clothes they were instructed to wear for a scene that highlights just how physically fit Cap is, even when compared to elite ex-military personnel (Anthoney Mackie).

Jerome Da Gnome · **#99** by **Jerome Da Gnome** » Oct 30, 2014 10:22 pm

Look at the sleeves on her shirt, the angle is all out of whack because she is wearing a t-shirt that is at least two sizes too small.

Spearthrower · **#100** by **Spearthrower** » Oct 30, 2014 10:22 pm

Jerome Da Gnome wrote:Did you see any difference in the way each of these men are choosing to appear to others?

Do you think the one on the right is attempting to accentuate his body to gain attention from others?

No more than the guy on the left is.

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