"I am you" nonsense

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"I am you" nonsense

#1  Postby daramantus » Feb 19, 2015 6:41 am

I was reading some pseudoscience, to get some laughts, when I read a text that said that "We are all one" after death.
Meaning that "I am you", and "you are me". We are all connected after life, We are all one "consciousness", and we are all love, blah blah

What's the evidence? That we all gonna be friends , connected , etc?
If after life everything's a hell ? With Clows, Devil Entities? (I know It's a retarded idea, but who knows? If they say absurd claims, I can too) Even if after life there's a wave field and we all gonna be in form of energy, what's the prove that we all gon' be together?
There are proofs out there, with people who did OBE and saw devil entities, etc.. (which can be pure imagination) but even though, no one has even seen connection between people.. or "pure love" etc..
I know that some of you will be like "There is no life after dead" , but try to understand my view to debunk this retarded 'New Age crap.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#2  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 19, 2015 7:13 am

Technically proof only applies to math, but you're right there's no evidence to support this kind of new age woo crap.

Could you cite some of this evidence for OBEs?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#3  Postby daramantus » Feb 19, 2015 7:21 am

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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#4  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 19, 2015 7:38 am

daramantus wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5_x8U7SR0I

Evidence, ie scientific studies. Not YT videos.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#5  Postby cavarka9 » Feb 19, 2015 7:59 am

There might very well be certain things science has not yet explained about human limits, the answer for that shall also be science, not religion or woo.
I for example had experience of being able to predict the days my tutor would not show up. something like being right abt it for 5 times. Without any conscious intention. When I did intend to check 2 times, it didnt happen as i had wanted. I think, humans can probably pick a scent from perhaps long distance away, but only statistically.I knew instinctively that I was going to meet someone about a distance of 1-2 kms and I did. It can be tested out and explained perhaps. Also, when I was young, i used to play with friends with me blindfolded. I remember that by sound i could make out the shapes and people and move out in their direction. So, this patient could perhaps hear out the doctor and sense from sound the movements of the doctor.

So in my view, we can perhaps do more. Not enough money is put into these kinds of researches because the outcome is not seen to be worth the effort. As far as 'I am you' is concerned. There is no 'I' and no 'you'. We are all a part of universe, so we are all one. So, that is true. The whole universe could be a simulation, so yeah, perhaps jesus as a character might turn up anyday with game cheats. No one is looking for evidence that the universe is a simulation.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#6  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 19, 2015 8:04 am

cavarka9 wrote:There might very well be certain things science has not yet explained about human limits, the answer for that shall also be science, not religion or woo.
I for example had experience of being able to predict the days my tutor would not show up. something like being right abt it for 5 times. Without any conscious intention. When I did intend to check 2 times, it didnt happen as i had wanted. I think, humans can probably pick a scent from perhaps long distance away, but only statistically.I knew instinctively that I was going to meet someone about a distance of 1-2 kms and I did. It can be tested out and explained perhaps. Also, when I was young, i used to play with friends with me blindfolded. I remember that by sound i could make out the shapes and people and move out in their direction. So, this patient could perhaps hear out the doctor and sense from sound the movements of the doctor.
So in my view, we can perhaps do more. Not enough money is put into these kinds of researches because the outcome is not seen to be worth the effort. As far as 'I am you' is concerned. There is no 'I' and no 'you'. We are all a part of universe, so we are all one. So, that is true. The whole universe could be a simulation, so yeah, perhaps jesus as a character might turn up anyday with game cheats. No one is looking for evidence that the universe is a simulation.

The bolded bits are pure woo.
Also with regards to your predictions, given the fact that you got it wrong several times, what makes you think it's anything beyond blind luck?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#7  Postby cavarka9 » Feb 19, 2015 8:15 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote:There might very well be certain things science has not yet explained about human limits, the answer for that shall also be science, not religion or woo.
I for example had experience of being able to predict the days my tutor would not show up. something like being right abt it for 5 times. Without any conscious intention. When I did intend to check 2 times, it didnt happen as i had wanted. I think, humans can probably pick a scent from perhaps long distance away, but only statistically.I knew instinctively that I was going to meet someone about a distance of 1-2 kms and I did. It can be tested out and explained perhaps. Also, when I was young, i used to play with friends with me blindfolded. I remember that by sound i could make out the shapes and people and move out in their direction. So, this patient could perhaps hear out the doctor and sense from sound the movements of the doctor.
So in my view, we can perhaps do more. Not enough money is put into these kinds of researches because the outcome is not seen to be worth the effort. As far as 'I am you' is concerned. There is no 'I' and no 'you'. We are all a part of universe, so we are all one. So, that is true. The whole universe could be a simulation, so yeah, perhaps jesus as a character might turn up anyday with game cheats. No one is looking for evidence that the universe is a simulation.

The bolded bits are pure woo.
Also with regards to your predictions, given the fact that you got it wrong several times, what makes you think it's anything beyond blind luck?

It will need experiment to check it out wouldnt it. As far as I and you is concerned. My sense of 'I' is never constant, me as 8 yr old is totally different person to whom I am right now. And If I were to suffer amnesia, what 'I' am would be different given my lack of memories. So 'I' and 'You' is ever changing. As far as being one is concerned. we are all part of the universe. And considering that universe shall be the only stuff that shall ever exist and we shall all die and our atoms become parts of others and so on. we are one.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#8  Postby cavarka9 » Feb 19, 2015 8:21 am

As far as getting it wrong is concerned, When i predicted that they wouldnt show up, i didnt do it out of want, it just came to me. when I said to my self" so and so wouldnt turn up " and they did, I was checking whether it had to do with intentions, long time back, mind you. So I do think perhaps humans can pick up others scents from some distance away and even that perhaps requires us to not have conscious intentions. If we have intentions, then we might confuse ourselves. Yes, it would require experiments.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#9  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 19, 2015 8:50 am

cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote:There might very well be certain things science has not yet explained about human limits, the answer for that shall also be science, not religion or woo.
I for example had experience of being able to predict the days my tutor would not show up. something like being right abt it for 5 times. Without any conscious intention. When I did intend to check 2 times, it didnt happen as i had wanted. I think, humans can probably pick a scent from perhaps long distance away, but only statistically.I knew instinctively that I was going to meet someone about a distance of 1-2 kms and I did. It can be tested out and explained perhaps. Also, when I was young, i used to play with friends with me blindfolded. I remember that by sound i could make out the shapes and people and move out in their direction. So, this patient could perhaps hear out the doctor and sense from sound the movements of the doctor.
So in my view, we can perhaps do more. Not enough money is put into these kinds of researches because the outcome is not seen to be worth the effort. As far as 'I am you' is concerned. There is no 'I' and no 'you'. We are all a part of universe, so we are all one. So, that is true. The whole universe could be a simulation, so yeah, perhaps jesus as a character might turn up anyday with game cheats. No one is looking for evidence that the universe is a simulation.

The bolded bits are pure woo.
Also with regards to your predictions, given the fact that you got it wrong several times, what makes you think it's anything beyond blind luck?

It will need experiment to check it out wouldnt it.

Until you do however, you have no rational basis to assume you have prophetic powers.

cavarka9 wrote: As far as I and you is concerned. My sense of 'I' is never constant, me as 8 yr old is totally different person to whom I am right now.

It's also a different, not totally, person from me at any age, ergo to claim that everyone is one is woo.

cavarka9 wrote: And If I were to suffer amnesia, what 'I' am would be different given my lack of memories.

You would still be you as opposed to me or him, her, they etc.

cavarka9 wrote: So 'I' and 'You' is ever changing.

True, doesn't change that you're seperate and different from me and others and not one.

cavarka9 wrote: As far as being one is concerned. we are all part of the universe.

True.

cavarka9 wrote: And considering that universe shall be the only stuff that shall ever exist and we shall all die and our atoms become parts of others and so on. we are one.

Non-sequitur.
Even if our atoms become part of other configurations, they will never be a merging of a 100% of our atoms.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#10  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 19, 2015 8:52 am

cavarka9 wrote:As far as getting it wrong is concerned, When i predicted that they wouldnt show up, i didnt do it out of want,

Completely irrelevant.

cavarka9 wrote: it just came to me.

We know humans are capable of random thoughts.
Isn't evidence for prophetic powers though,

cavarka9 wrote: when I said to my self" so and so wouldnt turn up " and they did, I was checking whether it had to do with intentions, long time back, mind you.

Again this is completely irrelevant with regards to whether you have prophetic powers or not.

cavarka9 wrote: So I do think perhaps humans can pick up others scents from some distance away and even that perhaps requires us to not have conscious intentions. If we have intentions, then we might confuse ourselves. Yes, it would require experiments.

And again, until you do, you have no rational basis to assume predictive powers.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#11  Postby cavarka9 » Feb 19, 2015 9:08 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Until you do however, you have no rational basis to assume you have prophetic powers.

Never claimed one. so the sentence makes no sense.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: As far as I and you is concerned. My sense of 'I' is never constant, me as 8 yr old is totally different person to whom I am right now.

It's also a different, not totally, person from me at any age, ergo to claim that everyone is one is woo.

The statement is to question 'I' as an entity of existence, we use it in our language to communicate. But doesnt exist for it changes .
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: And If I were to suffer amnesia, what 'I' am would be different given my lack of memories.

You would still be you as opposed to me or him, her, they etc.

In absence of any memories, It makes no sense to say that.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: So 'I' and 'You' is ever changing.

True, doesn't change that you're seperate and different from me and others and not one.

being skeptical of 'I', 'You'.
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: As far as being one is concerned. we are all part of the universe.

True.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: And considering that universe shall be the only stuff that shall ever exist and we shall all die and our atoms become parts of others and so on. we are one.

Non-sequitur.
Even if our atoms become part of other configurations, they will never be a merging of a 100% of our atoms.

[/quote]

Was only quoting Einstein " A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. The striving to free oneself from this delusion is the one issue of true religion. Not to nourish it but to try to overcome it is the way to reach the attainable measure of peace of mind."
:)
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#12  Postby cavarka9 » Feb 19, 2015 9:12 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote:As far as getting it wrong is concerned, When i predicted that they wouldnt show up, i didnt do it out of want,

Completely irrelevant.

cavarka9 wrote: it just came to me.

We know humans are capable of random thoughts.
Isn't evidence for prophetic powers though,

I believe this is a strawman, never claimed prophetic powers. Please show me where I did that?

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: when I said to my self" so and so wouldnt turn up " and they did, I was checking whether it had to do with intentions, long time back, mind you.

Again this is completely irrelevant with regards to whether you have prophetic powers or not.

I believe this is a strawman, never claimed prophetic powers. Please show me where I did that?

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: So I do think perhaps humans can pick up others scents from some distance away and even that perhaps requires us to not have conscious intentions. If we have intentions, then we might confuse ourselves. Yes, it would require experiments.

And again, until you do, you have no rational basis to assume predictive powers.

[/quote]

It is not about me, it is about human beings, I am making a hypothesis that can be tested and checked out that perhaps human beings can pick up scents of others(or not picking up others scents) unconsciously and realize the possibility of someone approaching or not.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#13  Postby daramantus » Feb 19, 2015 9:43 am

we are just 'information' stored somewhere.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#14  Postby GrahamH » Feb 19, 2015 9:46 am

cavarka9 wrote: I for example had experience of being able to predict the days my tutor would not show up. something like being right abt it for 5 times. Without any conscious intention. When I did intend to check 2 times, it didnt happen as i had wanted.


What were these 'predictions'? Did you make a note or tell anyone about it before you attended? Did you attend and, on finding the lecturer was absent think to yourself "I knew that was going to happen"?

What do you mean by "Without any conscious intention"?
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#15  Postby GrahamH » Feb 19, 2015 9:49 am

daramantus wrote:we are just 'information' stored somewhere.


Just stored? Isn't there something active about being human? If we were information a bit like a computer program then doesn't the program have to 'run' to exist as a dynamic system?
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#16  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 19, 2015 9:49 am

cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Until you do however, you have no rational basis to assume you have prophetic powers.

Never claimed one. so the sentence makes no sense.

You did:
cavarka9 wrote:
I for example had experience of being able to predict the days my tutor would not show up.


cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: As far as I and you is concerned. My sense of 'I' is never constant, me as 8 yr old is totally different person to whom I am right now.

It's also a different, not totally, person from me at any age, ergo to claim that everyone is one is woo.

The statement is to question 'I' as an entity of existence, we use it in our language to communicate. But doesnt exist for it changes .

Words are necesarrily limited in conveying concepts.
A tree is not a 'tree', doesn't change that we call it that though or that it exists.

cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: And If I were to suffer amnesia, what 'I' am would be different given my lack of memories.

You would still be you as opposed to me or him, her, they etc.

In absence of any memories, It makes no sense to say that.

It does. You =/= me. Hence you're you and I'm me.
Regardless of whether you're a different you than 5 minutes ago.



cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: So 'I' and 'You' is ever changing.

True, doesn't change that you're seperate and different from me and others and not one.

being skeptical of 'I', 'You'.

Playing unnecessarry semantic games.




cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: And considering that universe shall be the only stuff that shall ever exist and we shall all die and our atoms become parts of others and so on. we are one.

Non-sequitur.
Even if our atoms become part of other configurations, they will never be a merging of a 100% of our atoms.



Was only quoting Einstein " A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. The striving to free oneself from this delusion is the one issue of true religion. Not to nourish it but to try to overcome it is the way to reach the attainable measure of peace of mind."
:)

This is a flawed appeal to authority.
Einstein is saying we are not seperate from the universe, not that we are all one.
Last edited by Thomas Eshuis on Feb 19, 2015 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#17  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 19, 2015 9:49 am

daramantus wrote:we are just 'information' stored somewhere.

We also have physical bodies.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#18  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 19, 2015 9:53 am

cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote:As far as getting it wrong is concerned, When i predicted that they wouldnt show up, i didnt do it out of want,

Completely irrelevant.

cavarka9 wrote: it just came to me.

We know humans are capable of random thoughts.
Isn't evidence for prophetic powers though,

I believe this is a strawman, never claimed prophetic powers. Please show me where I did that?

See my other response to you.

cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: So I do think perhaps humans can pick up others scents from some distance away and even that perhaps requires us to not have conscious intentions. If we have intentions, then we might confuse ourselves. Yes, it would require experiments.

And again, until you do, you have no rational basis to assume predictive powers.


It is not about me, it is about human beings, I am making a hypothesis that can be tested and checked out that perhaps human beings can pick up scents of others(or not picking up others scents) unconsciously and realize the possibility of someone approaching or not.

That's not the same as actually predicting anything though.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#19  Postby Nicko » Feb 19, 2015 10:10 am

daramantus wrote:I was reading some pseudoscience, to get some laughts, when I read a text that said that "We are all one" after death.
Meaning that "I am you", and "you are me". We are all connected after life, We are all one "consciousness", and we are all love, blah blah

What's the evidence? That we all gonna be friends , connected , etc?
If after life everything's a hell ? With Clows, Devil Entities? (I know It's a retarded idea, but who knows? If they say absurd claims, I can too) Even if after life there's a wave field and we all gonna be in form of energy, what's the prove that we all gon' be together?
There are proofs out there, with people who did OBE and saw devil entities, etc.. (which can be pure imagination) but even though, no one has even seen connection between people.. or "pure love" etc..
I know that some of you will be like "There is no life after dead" , but try to understand my view to debunk this retarded 'New Age crap.


I am indeed one of those who say there is no life after death, for the simple and sufficient reason that death entails the end of a life: if life continues, death has not occurred.

What most people actually mean by "life after death", of course, is survival of the self beyond death. I am extremely sceptical as to whether this is even a coherent idea, let alone a possibility. We have very good medical case studies of the self being "lessened" (decreased cognitive function, loss of memory, etc.) by damage to the brain. Are we to be expected to note this, yet believe that total damage will cause the self to fly away whole and complete? The whole idea of some kind of survival of the self after death seems to invoke some kind of mind/body substance dualism, which is a view I regard as complete nonsense unsuppported by either evidence or logic.

The thing about this dualistic view is that - even if it were true - it would not entail survival of the self after death: it is just as plausible (that is, not at all) that the "soul" ceases to exist upon brain-death. Likewise, NDE's tell us nothing about what happens after death: the person did not die.

I raise these objections, which I realise you did not want, because my objections to this idea of our experiences and thoughts surviving death and "becoming one" with everyone else's are much the same. It would seem to invoke the same basic problems of substance dualism, the same basic contravention of observed reality, the same lack of anything that even could be evidence.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#20  Postby cavarka9 » Feb 19, 2015 11:52 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote:As far as getting it wrong is concerned, When i predicted that they wouldnt show up, i didnt do it out of want,

Completely irrelevant.

cavarka9 wrote: it just came to me.

We know humans are capable of random thoughts.
Isn't evidence for prophetic powers though,

I believe this is a strawman, never claimed prophetic powers. Please show me where I did that?

See my other response to you.

cavarka9 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
cavarka9 wrote: So I do think perhaps humans can pick up others scents from some distance away and even that perhaps requires us to not have conscious intentions. If we have intentions, then we might confuse ourselves. Yes, it would require experiments.

And again, until you do, you have no rational basis to assume predictive powers.


It is not about me, it is about human beings, I am making a hypothesis that can be tested and checked out that perhaps human beings can pick up scents of others(or not picking up others scents) unconsciously and realize the possibility of someone approaching or not.

That's not the same as actually predicting anything though.


So, you are the one who used the term "prophetic powers". Even when I claimed a natural hypothesis. So, you did use straw man argument. Else it is on you to show that what I meant could have meant only and only "prophetic powers".
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