Almost 800 forgotten Irish children dumped in 'septic tank'

DougC · **#21** by **DougC** » Jun 05, 2014 12:56 pm

They have no records. :shock:

Un-fucking-belevable. :nono:

Sendraks · **#22** by **Sendraks** » Jun 05, 2014 1:01 pm

DougC wrote:
Un-fucking-belevable.

Really? I can entirely believe it. After all, if you were carting woman off to these places at a time when the authority view was that these women were "tainted" would you care to keep records about them? And in a place where the women and children would be treated like shit, would you keep records of their existence?

None of this surprises me. It is entirely consistent with the vile mindset of the church.

Made of Stars · **#23** by **Made of Stars** » Jun 05, 2014 1:04 pm

DougC wrote:They have no records.

Plausible deniability.

The children of these women were denied baptism and segregated from others at school. If they died at such facilities, they were also denied a Christian burial.

County Galway death records showed that most of the children buried in the unmarked grave had died of sickness or disease.

DougC · **#24** by **DougC** » Jun 05, 2014 1:04 pm

In light of the post 2 above. Yea.

Entirely fucking credable.

felltoearth · **#25** by **felltoearth** » Jun 05, 2014 1:07 pm

igorfrankensteen wrote:Actually, it is not yet known why the institution decided to do as they did, and repeated the decision over and over again. We only know so far, that they did so.

Not excusing this even remotely, mind you, just fighting as I always do, for factual analysis over hyperbole.

What this demonstrably shows is that the whole anti-abortion stance is not in fact pro-life, it's simply about control that benefits the church. If it was about the preciousness of life to these warped individuals, they would have treated the bodies of these children much differently.

DoctorE · **#26** by **DoctorE** » Jun 05, 2014 1:09 pm

Documentary denouncing the Magdalene Asylums, which were operated by Catholic nuns in Ireland for over 100 years, caused an uproar when it was televised in England in March 1998 as part of Channel Four's Witness series

chairman bill · **#27** by **chairman bill** » Jun 05, 2014 1:46 pm

Next time a True Believer tells me that as an atheist I have no moral guide, I shall ask them about the 800 children, dumped amid the shit & piss of a septic tank.

DougC · **#28** by **DougC** » Jun 05, 2014 1:48 pm

chairman bill wrote:Next time a True Believer tells me that as an atheist I have no moral guide, I shall ask them about the 800 children, dumped amid the shit & piss of a septic tank.

Well said.

blindfaith · **#29** by **blindfaith** » Jun 05, 2014 2:44 pm

whats your opinion on this mick? i'd be very interested to hear your apologetics on this one

Paul · **#30** by **Paul** » Jun 05, 2014 2:47 pm

blindfaith wrote:whats your opinion on this mick? i'd be very interested to hear your apologetics on this one

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/grow-a-pair-mayor-s-advice-to-victims-of-bullying-t45333-400.html#p2016483

james1v · **#31** by **james1v** » Jun 05, 2014 3:53 pm

Callous acts, from a deeply callous organisation.

hackenslash · **#32** by **hackenslash** » Jun 05, 2014 5:50 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:Many children of the time were adopted by rich Americans and the mother had to waive all rights to the child for life. And there was an absolutely heartbreaking documentary made by Martin Sixsmith of one of the women who had never seen her son since he was taken from her when she was put in one of these homes. She managed to find it again over forty years later and asked the nuns if she could have access to information they had so she could trace him. But they absolutely point blank
refused and if I remember correctly she later discovered he had died so she never got to see him. But had they given her the information she could have traced him but they chose not to all because of that waiver she signed decades ago. Unbelievable

The book was called 'The Lost Child of Philomena Lee', and it's the basis for the recent film 'Philomena' that won lots of awards.

I was surprised to find that the home in the OP was in Galway since that is the next county to where my mother comes from [ Mayo ] One of the photographs of the children is dated 1924 which is the year she was born. I wonder if there are more of these unmarked graves scattered around Ireland. I would not be the least bit surprised if there were. What is almost beyond belief is how no one noticed for over thirty five years. I say almost because I am no longer surprised at what human beings do to each other. The sooner the species becomes extinct the better. Seriously

I know 3, 2 of which my mum grew up in. The convent she was born in, and spent the first few years in, is in Roscrae, in county Tipperary. The other was in Templemore, also in Tipp. Templemore is also notable for housing one of the infamous 'Magdalene' laundries. Slave labour in Europe in the 20th century.

Is the catlicker church a force for good in the world? Yeah, right.

Calilasseia · **#33** by **Calilasseia** » Jun 05, 2014 5:58 pm

Yet another lurid example of what happens when doctrine is preferred to human beings and human concerns.

Fallible · **#34** by **Fallible** » Jun 05, 2014 5:59 pm

And when too much power is placed in the hands of untouchables.

Animavore · **#35** by **Animavore** » Jun 05, 2014 6:06 pm

I was talking to a friend of mine recently about the time I was going to defect from the Catholic Church. I asked my friend to sign my letter of defection as a witness. He wasn't happy about it, but told me he'd do it as a friend.
As it turned out the Church changed their policy and stopped taking accepting letters of defection the very week after I'd sent off the letter. I think there was a sudden surge at the time. My friend said to me, "I'm sort of glad that happened." (I think the poor bastard was shitting himself about signing the bloody thing), "Why would you want to leave anyway?"

I just cocked an eye. Do you really have to fucking ask?

Fallible · **#36** by **Fallible** » Jun 05, 2014 6:10 pm

I often wonder why my dad never did that. He clearly despises them.

Animavore · **#37** by **Animavore** » Jun 05, 2014 6:14 pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-a ... -1.1821947

A Government inquiry into the mother and baby homes will not be confined to St Mary’s in Tuam, Minister for Children Charlie Flanagan has said.

“Tuam was not unique in Ireland as a mother and baby home. Mother and baby homes were not unique in Ireland as cold and brutal places of refuge from an unforgiving society,” he said in a statement this afternoon.

It was expected that officials will advise the Government on the best form of inquiry “before the end of the month”, he said.

There've been a lot of headlines over the past few days in the Irish papers talking about 'shock' and 'horror' over this business. The thing I found most shocking or horrifying was how absolutely un-surprised I actually was.

Animavore · **#38** by **Animavore** » Jun 05, 2014 6:14 pm

Fallible wrote:I often wonder why my dad never did that. He clearly despises them.

So does mine.

Emmeline · **#39** by **Emmeline** » Jun 05, 2014 6:23 pm

Animavore wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/mother-and-baby-inquiry-will-go-beyond-tuam-says-flanagan-1.1821947

A Government inquiry into the mother and baby homes will not be confined to St Mary’s in Tuam, Minister for Children Charlie Flanagan has said.

“Tuam was not unique in Ireland as a mother and baby home. Mother and baby homes were not unique in Ireland as cold and brutal places of refuge from an unforgiving society,” he said in a statement this afternoon.

It was expected that officials will advise the Government on the best form of inquiry “before the end of the month”, he said.

There've been a lot of headlines over the past few days in the Irish papers talking about 'shock' and 'horror' over this business. The thing I found most shocking or horrifying was how absolutely un-surprised I actually was.

Me too - I wasn't shocked at all. Disgusted yes, but who can claim to be genuinely shocked by any atrocities committed by any group of religious adherents?

Calilasseia · **#40** by **Calilasseia** » Jun 05, 2014 6:45 pm

Fallible wrote:And when too much power is placed in the hands of untouchables.

Well this phenomenon has a habit of rearing its ugly head whenever a doctrine is imposed from on high, and human beings are forced to conform thereto. The enforcers of said conformity inevitably appoint themselves as the requisite elite, whose decisions and judgements are sealed from scrutiny, to the point where attempts at said scrutiny are themselves asserted to constitute some sort of "offence" requiring "punishment", purportedly pointing to the alleged "guilt" with respect to other fabricated "offences".

In such a pathological environment, it becomes, of course, simplicity itself, for the self-appointed elite to make the doctrine consonant with their own desires and wishes, no matter how base, crude or lethal these may be. The words of Airey Neave, in Nuremberg, are apposite here:

Without Nuremberg, the nature of Hitlerism and its effect on the German people would have been more difficult to record. Through the overwhelming mass of verbal and documentary evidence introduced in the trial, we get a clearer picture of the sort of men and women who served Hitler. Many were ordinary people. Immense powers, even of life and death, were conferred upon them. Often they were corrupted, brutalised and finally destroyed by their own petty tyrannies. (Page 323)

My view, repeatedly stated here, is that we should be deeply suspicious of all doctrines, most especially over-arching doctrines claiming to possess "solutions" for any and every problem. Adherents thereof, once having convinced themselves of the purported "necessity" and "wisdom" of the doctrine, come to regard its enforced implementation as some sort of "ethical imperative", and any critical examination thereof not bestowing copious blessings thereupon as an "evil" to be stamped out. Regardless of the assertions underpinning the doctrine, be they supernaturalist assertions or otherwise, the process inevitably follows the same trajectory. "Good" and "evil" become defined in terms of conformity to the doctrine, followed by the fabrication of apologetics, whenever questionable or outright malign methods are pressed into the service of the doctrine.

In short, failure to be ruthless with respect to the discarding of bad ideas, invariably leads to the discarding of good people, frequently by even more ruthless means.

Almost 800 forgotten Irish children dumped in 'septic tank'

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