Cabinet Office confims govt has tonight laid a Day of Poll Order needed for Euro elections: “As a responsible Government today we have taken the necessary steps required by law should we have to participate."

tuco wrote:I guess I am gonna post the clock like Scot Dutchy

Beatsong wrote:And to clarify in relation to Hermit's questions above - I don't think any of this would be in the "interest of the country", even if Labour could achieve it. I can't really see the point of exchanging an immediate disaster for a long term, drawn out disaster, which has the additional disadvantage of destroying the only realistic parliamentary opposition, leaving the country even more open to being arse-raped by the Tories, and quite possibly just ending in the same disaster anyway, after referendum no. 3 or 4.

I'm coming round to thinking the best thing for the country at this point is to get on with a full, hearty, proper English Brexit, so we can suffer the consequences and noone can complain that it didn't get a chance to prove itself. Then when things get bad enough and when enough of the old bigots have died off, stick our pathetic tail between our legs and beg to go back in.

Beatsong wrote:Interesting perspectives on whether Labour should push for a second referendum here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... a-de-piero

I still don't know what I think! I think probably, the part I agree with most is de Piero's point that "there has been no seismic shift of opinion". I know a lot of hardline Remainers who manage to convince themselves that the country is now hugely more pro-Remain, basically because it makes so much sense to themselves that they can't imagine it not making sense to other people. But everybody I know who actually lives or works among Leavers says the oppposite. Polls are inconclusive...

That being so, I think there's a real danger of the most dangerous and difficult result - a tiny majority for Remain. I don't think such a referendum would help. If parliament are prepared to overturn Brexit because the country is divided "about 50/50" then they can do that without a referendum (and face the consequences) because we know that already.

ronmcd wrote:LOL

(this lol was brought to you courtesy of Scotland is too poor to be independent )

But let's not get in to that.

tuco wrote:He destroyed his own party (if that was to even happen) for the greater good of the nation .. does not sound that bad to me.

Thommo wrote:

ronmcd wrote:LOL

(this lol was brought to you courtesy of Scotland is too poor to be independent )

But let's not get in to that.

Fascinated as I am by this now long-term vein of posting, I looked up the providence of the accusation that "Scotland is too poor to be independent" and it appears to be attributable to pro-independence SNP politician John Swinney.

One wonders how that is relevant to any thread, post or view expressed by a ratskepper ever, as it appears the SNP members here (like John Swinney himself, and indeed, apparently every other living human) don't agree with that hypothetical view.

ronmcd wrote:

Matt_B wrote:A second referendum only solves one problem, and it's that Parliament don't have to own what's going to be a widely unpopular decision whichever choice they make.

In terms of making the right choice for the country, it's up there with tossing a coin.

GrahamH wrote:

Matt_B wrote:A second referendum only solves one problem, and it's that Parliament don't have to own what's going to be a widely unpopular decision whichever choice they make.

In terms of making the right choice for the country, it's up there with tossing a coin.

You are right to an extent, it transfer ownership of the issue from government / Parliament to the electorate. That latter is the more important bit. So some MPs may say "it wasn't our fault" but anyone might say of the voters "it's what you (we) said you (we)wanted".

Germany’s EU affairs minister has complained that “absolutely nothing has changed” in Westminster, 24 hours before the bloc’s leaders come together to decide on a possible Brexit delay.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/c ... spartandhp