This would be highly amusing if that buffoon wasn't officially representing the UK. Tragicomic.


But that is the nature of the clown.

Comment on Ch4 FB post giving Johnson a new nickname:

"Incredible Sulk"

President of Luxembourg was epic tonight.

He was very good. Stark contrast to Boris, i saw his interview with Laura Kuenssberg and he was shifty as fuck.

So this hearing by the Supreme Court will take at least 3 days. Ho hum.

Boris the Not-so-bold.

Peaceful protestors at a press conference? Run away!

It's uncanny how unfit for the office of Prime MInnister Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has become in such a short time. 100% defeated. Without a hope of majority, and nothing but waffle and soundbite. Worst. PM. Ever.

Worst Cabinet ever too. Dominic Raaab as Foreign Secretary? The man's a tit.

A great blue tit, to be exact.

Of course Brexit supporters are blindly supporting Brave Sir Johnson running away in Luxembourg....

GrahamH wrote:Peaceful protestors at a press conference? Run away!

No, no, they weren't peaceful protesters. It was apparently all a set-up press trap via rent-a-crowd.

Of course it was. Why else would there be Brits in Belgium unhappy about Brexit? More media Brexit bolocks

Corbyn new policy on Brexit, to stay neutral but will negotiate a deal and it put it against remain in a 2nd referendum.
Will implement whatever is decided.

That is actually a very clever political policy, it will get remainers on board, non-extremist working-class Labour brexiters.
It will lose the openly racist working class but they were a lost cause anyway and belong with the Tories/Brexit party.

Any remainers who want to stay in the EU and consider that to be the most important issue should vote Labour, Lib Dem or SNP depending on who is most likely to win in your area.

Corbyn is a total waste of space but looks like he has some sensible advisors somewhere (I doubt he came up with this policy on his own)

mrjonno wrote:Corbyn new policy on Brexit, to stay neutral but will negotiate a deal and it put it against remain in a 2nd referendum.
Will implement whatever is decided.

That is actually a very clever political policy, it will get remainers on board.....

2 weeks ago it was very unlikely to get a large % of remainers when there were explicit remain options elsewhere, ie libdems greens snp plaid.

Now, what Swinson has done is made Labour *seem* moderate to many remain voters, rather than confused as before.

Amazing.

mrjonno wrote:Corbyn new policy on Brexit, to stay neutral but will negotiate a deal and it put it against remain in a 2nd referendum.
Will implement whatever is decided.

That is actually a very clever political policy, it will get remainers on board, non-extremist working-class Labour brexiters.
It will lose the openly racist working class but they were a lost cause anyway and belong with the Tories/Brexit party.

Any remainers who want to stay in the EU and consider that to be the most important issue should vote Labour, Lib Dem or SNP depending on who is most likely to win in your area.

Corbyn is a total waste of space but looks like he has some sensible advisors somewhere (I doubt he came up with this policy on his own)

2016: Referendum Campaign: Despite campaigning all over the country for Remain, Corbyn is accused of being too equivocal and not backing Remain definitely enough, since he dared to mention that some things about the EU require improvement. Everyone suspects this is because he's a longstanding Eurosceptic and secretly wants to leave.

2019: Corbyn's policy of remaining neutral and not having the party back either Remain or Leave definitely is "a very clever political policy". But of course - despite it being entirely consistent with the exact same nuanced appraisal of the rights and wrongs of both sides that he was slated for three years earlier - he can't possibly have come up with it on his own.

ronmcd wrote:

mrjonno wrote:Corbyn new policy on Brexit, to stay neutral but will negotiate a deal and it put it against remain in a 2nd referendum.
Will implement whatever is decided.

That is actually a very clever political policy, it will get remainers on board.....

2 weeks ago it was very unlikely to get a large % of remainers when there were explicit remain options elsewhere, ie libdems greens snp plaid.

Now, what Swinson has done is made Labour *seem* moderate to many remain voters, rather than confused as before.

Amazing.

Amazing indeed. It's almost like we make policy for the present and future, not even considering what would happen if someone put it in a time machine and announced it two weeks ago.

Beatsong wrote:

ronmcd wrote:

mrjonno wrote:Corbyn new policy on Brexit, to stay neutral but will negotiate a deal and it put it against remain in a 2nd referendum.
Will implement whatever is decided.

That is actually a very clever political policy, it will get remainers on board.....

2 weeks ago it was very unlikely to get a large % of remainers when there were explicit remain options elsewhere, ie libdems greens snp plaid.

Now, what Swinson has done is made Labour *seem* moderate to many remain voters, rather than confused as before.

Amazing.

Amazing indeed. It's almost like we make policy for the present and future, not even considering what would happen if someone put it in a time machine and announced it two weeks ago.

You're mistaken. It's still a confused bodged policy made by someone who *wants* brexit, alienating voters for whom Labour should be the party they support on principle.

That Swinson has made the libdems seem like anti democratic extremists might help in the sense Labour don't look quite so bad by comparison, but its not an endorsement of Labours fudge.

A shite sandwich might make a dry cucumber sandwich the preferred option, but I'd still not buy it.

Ron, I'm curious why Labour "taking a position" as a party for Remain is so important to you. If I understand correctly you support the idea of a second referendum. Corbyn is intent on making sure that's between Remain and a form of Leave that would fuck the country as little as possible. That being so, you basically get what you want. Surely whether "Labour" as an institution express one view or other within that is only of symbolic importance? It's the people who will vote.

And it's not like Labour defining themselves as pro-Remain is going to make anyone believe that Kate Hoey or Dennis Skinnner are anyway.

Isn't Labour reserving the right to whatever position, or non-position, they consider politically best for them a reasonable price to pay for them giving you, practically speaking, pretty much the exact outcome you want?

ronmcd wrote:

mrjonno wrote:Corbyn new policy on Brexit, to stay neutral but will negotiate a deal and it put it against remain in a 2nd referendum.
Will implement whatever is decided.

That is actually a very clever political policy, it will get remainers on board.....

2 weeks ago it was very unlikely to get a large % of remainers when there were explicit remain options elsewhere, ie libdems greens snp plaid.

Now, what Swinson has done is made Labour *seem* moderate to many remain voters, rather than confused as before.

Amazing.

I'm a bit confused ron. Don't you want labour to take strongly remain position?

I would think you would at least like them to move into the ground the lib dems have vacated : bollocks to brexit via a peoples' vote.

Corbyn has been consistently moderate throughout. What do you want them to do? Follow the lib dems to the extreme?

Labour may be about to chase the lib dems to that extreme.

Pro-remain members have tabled some 61 motions calling for the party to revoke Article 50, and senior figures on the front bench, including Diane Abbott, Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry, have said that they would campaign for remain in the event of a second referendum.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... Q3dJUJvz34

Although I'd be among those who think that revoking Article 50 (or, strictly speaking, the letter submitted under its terms) is the best way out of this mess, it has to be acknowledged that public support for it still isn't that great. That's partly because it's been treated like the naughty schoolboy of Brexit options, while far more fantastical plans have been given airtime instead, but also because its adoption would be an admission that the two major political parties in the UK have been leading everyone up the garden path for the past three years.

So yes, I'd like it to happen, but would have to acknowledge that it's a painful bitter truth that's going be extremely difficult for a lot of people to swallow. Nailing it to the mast in the same fashion as the hard Brexiteers are doing with no-deal (which isn't and never has been an option to anyone who isn't also prepared to crash the economy in the process) is likely to harden people against it and prove equally divisive.

I'm not a fan of referendums, especially with the way that the UK used them under Cameron, but if that's what it takes to rehabilitate the remain option, so be it. The Brexit side of it needs to be nailed down hard though, with no room for open-ended interpretations, and the only candidate for that is May's oft-rejected Withdrawal Agreement.