Ireland's divisive referendum on same-sex marriage

quisquose · **#141** by **quisquose** » May 23, 2015 3:51 pm

Does this mean that in Ireland people are now going to be forced to marry somebody of the same sex? :dopey:

Shrunk · **#142** by **Shrunk** » May 23, 2015 3:57 pm

I'm sure you can't walk anywhere there now without your ears being assaulted by the sound of sodomy.

quisquose · **#143** by **quisquose** » May 23, 2015 4:01 pm

It's going to be awful isn't it? Just as predicted by all the doomsayers, and just like it has been everywhere else where same sex marriage has been forced on the population.

Scot Dutchy · **#144** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 23, 2015 4:05 pm

tuco wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
DarthHelmet86 wrote:There is nothing wrong with referenda for making a large change to a countries constitution. It is just as good as allowing the changes to be made based on the number of elected officials voting for it.

Uhm... No. Elected officials are meant to understand bills entering parliament people rarely do. This case in question is fairly open and shut but other subjects often need more understanding. Often even the question on the ballot paper is usually difficult enough to start off with. The last British referendum on changing the voting system is a prime example of how manipulative the question can be.
In 2005 we had our last and the first in 200 years. It turned out to be a vote of confidence in the sitting cabinet than a referendum on the Europe constitution. It was decided afterwards that the use of referenda would be dropped.

That is the dream you are living or rather there is difference between what something is meant to be and what something is. It is quite possible that the Dutch are content with someone else representing them but so are the Qatari. It tells little whether those who vote on laws are knowledgeable about them or if group of "experts" works out expert opinion which then is parroted to others who vote by their party color as advised alternatively as they were discussing over lunch with that guy from national industry something.

If the dream works its fine. After all little theft, bribery, tit for tat, slackery, incompetence or idiocy at the expense of the treasury will probably not get noticed. And when it does its .. financial crisis. Its still a dream, like communism .. IF everyone behaved by what is meant.

Sure, local councils where people know each other representatives can work nicely and exceptions surely exist but the really important issues are not decided on those levels and exceptions are just that.

I am glad I dont live in your country.

Scot Dutchy · **#145** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 23, 2015 4:09 pm

zulumoose wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Procedure is wrong. Never rely on referenda.

The thing is though, it is when the people start to believe that governments are not representing them that the big trouble starts. Holding a referendum reassures people that the government does not conspire behind their backs to ignore or misrepresent popular opinion.

That is what happens with a referendum. The question is angled a certain way. The last British referendum shows that perfectly.

mrjonno · **#146** by **mrjonno** » May 23, 2015 4:21 pm

Not a fan of referendum, it shows weak government but its a bit different if referendums are required by a constitution (then again not a fan of those either)

tuco · **#147** by **tuco** » May 23, 2015 4:36 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
tuco wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
DarthHelmet86 wrote:There is nothing wrong with referenda for making a large change to a countries constitution. It is just as good as allowing the changes to be made based on the number of elected officials voting for it.

Uhm... No. Elected officials are meant to understand bills entering parliament people rarely do. This case in question is fairly open and shut but other subjects often need more understanding. Often even the question on the ballot paper is usually difficult enough to start off with. The last British referendum on changing the voting system is a prime example of how manipulative the question can be.
In 2005 we had our last and the first in 200 years. It turned out to be a vote of confidence in the sitting cabinet than a referendum on the Europe constitution. It was decided afterwards that the use of referenda would be dropped.

That is the dream you are living or rather there is difference between what something is meant to be and what something is. It is quite possible that the Dutch are content with someone else representing them but so are the Qatari. It tells little whether those who vote on laws are knowledgeable about them or if group of "experts" works out expert opinion which then is parroted to others who vote by their party color as advised alternatively as they were discussing over lunch with that guy from national industry something.

If the dream works its fine. After all little theft, bribery, tit for tat, slackery, incompetence or idiocy at the expense of the treasury will probably not get noticed. And when it does its .. financial crisis. Its still a dream, like communism .. IF everyone behaved by what is meant.

Sure, local councils where people know each other representatives can work nicely and exceptions surely exist but the really important issues are not decided on those levels and exceptions are just that.

I am glad I dont live in your country.

We are largely off topic but you don't live here you just invest here.

In a system where astronomic sums are collected and redistributed there are many opportunities for lets say mismanagement of assets. Hard to get any numbers but there are estimates from Transparency International that just under 10% budget gets lets say wasted. If it is so, qui bono?

Obviously I cannot comment on the Netherlands as they are about as significant as the Czech and one get to hear about them when they win a football game or when there is major fuck up. As I said, I do believe you are content. It does tell little about the system however.

Scot Dutchy · **#148** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 23, 2015 5:10 pm

Obviously I cannot comment on the Netherlands as they are about as significant as the Czech

Just take a look at which positions are held by Dutch people within the EU. For a small country economically/socially we punch away above our level.

catbasket · **#149** by **catbasket** » May 23, 2015 5:38 pm

Watching RTE News through the Independent.ie website. Unfortunately there's a really annoying 'no' woman from the Iona Institute on at the moment.

Hooray she's gone off air ...

Animavore · **#150** by **Animavore** » May 23, 2015 5:42 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Obviously I cannot comment on the Netherlands as they are about as significant as the Czech

Just take a look at which positions are held by Dutch people within the EU. For a small country economically/socially we punch away above our level.

Yeah. We get it. Holland is brilliant.

Jesus, give it a rest. Just enjoy the day. FFS.

Scot Dutchy · **#151** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 23, 2015 5:50 pm

Animavore wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Obviously I cannot comment on the Netherlands as they are about as significant as the Czech

Just take a look at which positions are held by Dutch people within the EU. For a small country economically/socially we punch away above our level.

Yeah. We get it. Holland is brilliant.

Jesus, give it a rest. Just enjoy the day. FFS.

Look he brought into the discussion I am just replying.

My wife is very happy too btw. In her lifetime she has seen the downfall of the rcc. In her day as a young girl nobody could ever imagined this happening.

Thomas Eshuis · **#152** by **Thomas Eshuis** » May 23, 2015 6:06 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
HughMcB wrote:POPULAR VOTE.

We do not do require popular vote. We dont have referenda.

Eh, yes we do.
Had one on the EU treaty for example.
Had one in this city regarding the restructuring of the city centre.
We don't do it often, but we do have them from time to time.

Scot Dutchy · **#153** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 23, 2015 6:09 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
HughMcB wrote:POPULAR VOTE.

We do not do require popular vote. We dont have referenda.

Eh, yes we do.
Had one on the EU treaty for example.
Had one in this city regarding the restructuring of the city centre.
We don't do it often, but we do have them from time to time.

One in 200 years is often?

It was decided after the analysis of the last one never to use them again.

scott1328 · **#154** by **scott1328** » May 23, 2015 6:10 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
HughMcB wrote:POPULAR VOTE.

We do not do require popular vote. We dont have referenda.

Eh, yes we do.
Had one on the EU treaty for example.
Had one in this city regarding the restructuring of the city centre.
We don't do it often, but we do have them from time to time.

Those aren't true referenda. Holland doesn't have those.

Animavore · **#155** by **Animavore** » May 23, 2015 6:14 pm

Stop pissing on my gay parade.

Thomas Eshuis · **#156** by **Thomas Eshuis** » May 23, 2015 6:15 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
HughMcB wrote:POPULAR VOTE.

We do not do require popular vote. We dont have referenda.

Eh, yes we do.
Had one on the EU treaty for example.
Had one in this city regarding the restructuring of the city centre.
We don't do it often, but we do have them from time to time.

One in 200 years is often?

It was decided after the analysis of the last one never to use them again.

Read my post again, more carefully Scot....
And keep in mind these are just examples.
Also, stop shifting the goal posts.

Thomas Eshuis · **#157** by **Thomas Eshuis** » May 23, 2015 6:15 pm

Animavore wrote::cry: Stop pissing on my gay parade.

Thomas Eshuis · **#158** by **Thomas Eshuis** » May 23, 2015 6:16 pm

CCN demonstrates how an abreviated article title can result in an incorrect statement:
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/23/europe/ireland-referendum-same-sex-marriage/

Ireland becomes first nation to legalize same-sex marriage

Dublin, Ireland (CNN)Same-sex couples will soon be able to walk down the aisle in the Emerald Isle.

Ireland became the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage through a popular vote on Saturday -- and what a popular vote "yes" was in the landmark referendum that will change the nation's constitution.

Bubalus · **#159** by **Bubalus** » May 23, 2015 6:18 pm

Emmeline wrote:
Animavore wrote:Yup. I'm calling it now. We've won.

Well done Ireland!

Now we have to get NI to join the 21st Century!

Animavore · **#160** by **Animavore** » May 23, 2015 6:23 pm

Go to any Irish article. Scroll to comments. Enjoy the bitter tears.

Ireland's divisive referendum on same-sex marriage

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