Scot Dutchy wrote:Well then it is probably likely that Parliament will get the vote on Brexit.

Parliament 'very likely' to be asked to agree Brexit deal

The three wells.

I'd interpret that as Parliament voting on the post-Brexit negotiated trade deal with the EU, if any. If they vote "no", then hard Brexit, as I wouldn't think the EU would allow the UK to remain two years after triggering Article 50. I could be missing something.

Warren Dew wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:Well then it is probably likely that Parliament will get the vote on Brexit.

Parliament 'very likely' to be asked to agree Brexit deal

The three wells.

I'd interpret that as Parliament voting on the post-Brexit negotiated trade deal with the EU, if any. If they vote "no", then hard Brexit, as I wouldn't think the EU would allow the UK to remain two years after triggering Article 50. I could be missing something.

That's definitely what it means and parliament voting no would not only mean WTO rules exit it would mean the fall of the government and considering the state of country quite possibly complete economic collapse

Just fyi

.@ScotGov ministers @FionaHyslop & @Feorlean meet @GuyVerhofstadt in Brussels - the EU lead Brexit negotiator who supports #ScotlandInEurope

https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/statu ... 1987367936

Screw their self-imposed rule about the request coming from national governments: to avoid Project Fear 3, the EU needs to give Scotland cast-iron guarantees about her place in the bloc post-independence; and particularly, shoot down the Spanish veto bogeyman. Hopefully this glad-handing will be a step towards that.

Byron wrote:Screw their self-imposed rule about the request coming from national governments: to avoid Project Fear 3, the EU needs to give Scotland cast-iron guarantees about her place in the bloc post-independence; and particularly, shoot down the Spanish veto bogeyman. Hopefully this glad-handing will be a step towards that.

But its got to be trade off, if the EU offers membership it should require membership of the Euro so that Scotland can show its not just little England and is dedicated to the project.

Membership of the Euro is far better than we will make it up what will will do at a later date, some people won't like it but not that many on the independence side

Entirely agree. Member of the EU plus member of the Euroland should be the minimal offered.

Scotland might have to agree in principle to join the Euro but will be left to proceed at its own pace - like Sweden.

mcgruff wrote:Scotland might have to agree in principle to join the Euro but will be left to proceed at its own pace - like Sweden.

That's a bit reasonable, you should be Prime Minister .
Point is might want to as much as possible reduce any unknowns , that's going to include things people don't like

mrjonno wrote:

mcgruff wrote:Scotland might have to agree in principle to join the Euro but will be left to proceed at its own pace - like Sweden.

That's a bit reasonable, you should be Prime Minister .
Point is might want to as much as possible reduce any unknowns , that's going to include things people don't like

It's not that Scotland would be required to join euro as some (who argue against scottish independence) argue. It's that Scotland wouldnt qualify to join the euro initially, and there is no method to impose it on us.

I would just put all the cards on the table and embrace the political side of Europe as well (something England never has)

The EU will fund Scotland during a transition but it will be at a price (spending controls, austerity etc). The EU isn't a rich man clubs its a capitalist club that works with countries to become rich.

ronmcd wrote:

mrjonno wrote:

mcgruff wrote:Scotland might have to agree in principle to join the Euro but will be left to proceed at its own pace - like Sweden.

That's a bit reasonable, you should be Prime Minister .
Point is might want to as much as possible reduce any unknowns , that's going to include things people don't like

It's not that Scotland would be required to join euro as some (who argue against scottish independence) argue. It's that Scotland wouldnt qualify to join the euro initially, and there is no method to impose it on us.

I never realised the Scottish economy was in such bad shape.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

ronmcd wrote:

mrjonno wrote:

mcgruff wrote:Scotland might have to agree in principle to join the Euro but will be left to proceed at its own pace - like Sweden.

That's a bit reasonable, you should be Prime Minister .
Point is might want to as much as possible reduce any unknowns , that's going to include things people don't like

It's not that Scotland would be required to join euro as some (who argue against scottish independence) argue. It's that Scotland wouldnt qualify to join the euro initially, and there is no method to impose it on us.

I never realised the Scottish economy was in such bad shape.

Better than Greece but you wouldn't let Greece in if they applied now. Independence would involve a lot of pain (but not as much as staying in the UK). Presumably Scotland economy is probably better than Poland was 10 years ago.
The advantages of Scotland joining for the EU isn't really about economics its about politics, Hey look are the UK ,only countries that have completely lost the plot want to leave the EU etc

Scot Dutchy wrote:

ronmcd wrote:

mrjonno wrote:

mcgruff wrote:Scotland might have to agree in principle to join the Euro but will be left to proceed at its own pace - like Sweden.

That's a bit reasonable, you should be Prime Minister .
Point is might want to as much as possible reduce any unknowns , that's going to include things people don't like

It's not that Scotland would be required to join euro as some (who argue against scottish independence) argue. It's that Scotland wouldnt qualify to join the euro initially, and there is no method to impose it on us.

I never realised the Scottish economy was in such bad shape.

That's not the reason, Scotland just wouldnt meet the criteria. Wouldn't have in 2014 either, when our deficit (so-called deficit, which doesnt actually exist) was relatively low.

The entry requirements are explained here:
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2013/11/5894/15

Scot Dutchy wrote:

ronmcd wrote:

mrjonno wrote:

mcgruff wrote:Scotland might have to agree in principle to join the Euro but will be left to proceed at its own pace - like Sweden.

That's a bit reasonable, you should be Prime Minister .
Point is might want to as much as possible reduce any unknowns , that's going to include things people don't like

It's not that Scotland would be required to join euro as some (who argue against scottish independence) argue. It's that Scotland wouldnt qualify to join the euro initially, and there is no method to impose it on us.

I never realised the Scottish economy was in such bad shape.

Scotland's economy is fine, could be better of course. We're a wealthy modern diverse economy.

Scotland's economy is fine, could be better of course. We're a wealthy modern diverse economy.

But the UK is trying to fix that with Brexit, my main concern about Scottish independence is it will now be on the basis of them being completely pissed of with the English which they have ever right to be rather than more positive things which is bad if you are English and want to live there

mrjonno wrote:

Scotland's economy is fine, could be better of course. We're a wealthy modern diverse economy.

But the UK is trying to fix that with Brexit, my main concern about Scottish independence is it will now be on the basis of them being completely pissed of with the English which they have ever right to be rather than more positive things which is bad if you are English and want to live there

That's bollocks, with big hairy bollocks on top.

I'm English and go to Scotland a lot. I've never been made to feel anything but totally welcome.

I love Scotland, it's a great country. I prefer it to England.

mcgruff wrote:Scotland might have to agree in principle to join the Euro but will be left to proceed at its own pace - like Sweden.

Yup, via a handy loophole, while joining the Euro's theoretically mandatory absent an opt-out (like Denmark's), joining ERM II's optional, which Sweden's taken full advantage of.

If Scotland can inherit the UK's membership*, opt-outs and all, even better.

* On one theory, since the UK only came into existence with Union between England and Scotland, if Scots vote to dissolve it, the UK ceases to exist. Either both are successor states, or neither is.

Byron wrote:
* On one theory, since the UK only came into existence with Union between England and Scotland, if Scots vote to dissolve it, the UK ceases to exist. Either both are successor states, or neither is.

Interestingly, I think in the 2014 referendum everyone (for different reasons) wanted to avoid talking about this point. The UK govt wanted to say LA LA LA NOT LISTENING LOOK OUR LAWYERS SAY WE'RE CONTINUING STATE and the Scottish govt wanted to keep it in their back pocket for the negotiations. Because the whole currency/oil/debts/assets discussion becomes very interesting in a legal and practical sense when Scotland is breaking a union of equals compared to leaving a continuing state.

The argument may resurface soon.