UK EU Referendum

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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4361  Postby ronmcd » Oct 30, 2016 10:22 am

It's all kicking off today. UK govt shitting it now.

AN independent Scotland could remain in the EU after Brexit by taking over the UK’s place as a member state, one of the country’s leading political scientists has said.

Professor John Curtice, of Strathclyde University, said Scotland could swap places with Britain in the EU if there was a vote for independence in a second referendum.

He said it was “difficult to deny” that the EU would have the “option” of handing Scotland the UK’s seat in the EU after Brexit under those circumstances.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1483 ... ref=twtrec


Steve Peers today, in response to UK gov insisting no, Scotland has to leave EU to reapply:
EU Treaties can be amended to replace "UK" with "Scotland" throughout.

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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4362  Postby ronmcd » Oct 30, 2016 10:48 am

Actually, never bother with the EU brexit thingy, it's irrelevant. The FBI have seen to that. Must look out my Pip Boy 3000 and buy a vicious dug.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4363  Postby Byron » Oct 30, 2016 2:11 pm

ronmcd wrote:Actually, never bother with the EU brexit thingy, it's irrelevant. The FBI have seen to that. Must look out my Pip Boy 3000 and buy a vicious dug.

I've got Doomsday Preppers and the new Mad Max on order. Revision. :smoke:
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4364  Postby ronmcd » Nov 01, 2016 6:10 pm

It's Fine, Honestly :shock: #37

From a mate with a pub: Spirits suppliers sent updated pricing today. All mainland EU spirits up by over 20%. Grand Mariner (France) by 31%!

https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/793503386033393664
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4366  Postby mcgruff » Nov 01, 2016 7:13 pm

I'm dreaming of a Black Xmas.
Like nothing else I've seen before.
In my bunker cans are stacked
And now all my Xmases are dark.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4367  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 02, 2016 10:14 am

Well they were not warned:

Brexit so complex it could overwhelm politicians, warn senior academics

Independent group says leaving EU will test constitution and legal framework to their limits and ‘possibly beyond’

Managing Britain’s exit from the European Union is such a formidable and complex challenge that it could overwhelm politicians and civil servants for years, senior academics have warned.

Theresa May has announced she will trigger article 50 – the two-year process of negotiating a separation from the EU – by the end of March next year. The government will also publish a great repeal bill, which will transfer all EU-originated laws into British law, so that MPs can decide how much they want to discard.

A report from The UK in a Changing Europe, an independent group of academics led by Prof Anand Menon of King’s College London, warns that this will only be the start of the process of extricating Britain from the EU and establishing new relationships with other member states.

More...


Of course these are experts so can be ignored. :lol:
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4369  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 02, 2016 12:17 pm

That was obvious by the lack of any planning in a case of a win. It was not meant to happen. Farage was meant to look stupid (well he still does I suppose) and Cameron was meant to increase his position within the tory party.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4370  Postby minininja » Nov 03, 2016 10:27 am

This will shake things up a bit.

Government loses Article 50 court fight

Parliament must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the European Union, the High Court has ruled.

This means the government cannot trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - beginning formal discussions with the EU - on their own.

Theresa May says the referendum - and existing ministerial powers - mean MPs do not need to vote, but campaigners called this unconstitutional.

The government is expected to appeal.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4371  Postby ronmcd » Nov 03, 2016 10:56 am

minininja wrote:This will shake things up a bit.

Government loses Article 50 court fight

Parliament must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the European Union, the High Court has ruled.

This means the government cannot trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - beginning formal discussions with the EU - on their own.

Theresa May says the referendum - and existing ministerial powers - mean MPs do not need to vote, but campaigners called this unconstitutional.

The government is expected to appeal.

Weird thing, I don't really get the govt's position. Any referendum is advisory only, and would need ratification by the UK Parliament, so I don't see why May thinks brexit is different. Weren't previous EU treaties etc put to parliament? Same thing. The MPs wont actually vote against, that would be a democratic outrage even though I am vehemently against brexit.

I've said it before - I just imagine what my reaction would be as a yes voter in the Scottish referendum if the vote to pass the legislation required for Scotland to dissolve the union were voted down by MPs. Wouldnt happen after the people voted for it. But equally there was always going to be an actual vote on it, same as article 50.

May has just caused herself unnecessary problems.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4372  Postby mrjonno » Nov 03, 2016 11:01 am

The problem with debating article 50 in parliament is that the government is going to have to say pretty much what it wants to do after invoking the article. It's pretty obvious it doesn't know what it wants to do.

I suspect we will just have a general election where the Tories will get a massive majority and can then decide behind closed doors what they plan to do and parliament will just rubber stamp it

Where is Jeremy?
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4373  Postby fisherman » Nov 03, 2016 11:23 am

The referendum only mandated leaving the EU, hopefully one result of this process will be that the government is effectively restricted to that action only.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4374  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am

Well that has knackered them. More delays. :whistle:

Calling a GE is almost impossible. With Labour party in its present mess it would be turkeys voting for xmas.

Remember only two ways to call one; vote of confidence or two thirds of a majority for the motion. Very awkward.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4375  Postby fisherman » Nov 03, 2016 11:43 am

Another way to see it is that the High Court has kept the case alive, allowing it to be judged by the Supreme Court in December.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4376  Postby mrjonno » Nov 03, 2016 12:12 pm

fisherman wrote:Another way to see it is that the High Court has kept the case alive, allowing it to be judged by the Supreme Court in December.


Then we can appeal to the European courts, which can then decide if the British government can overrule the British parliament so it can then ignore the European courts. It's like time travel and going back to shoot your own parents paradox!
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4377  Postby Sendraks » Nov 03, 2016 12:53 pm

mrjonno wrote:I suspect we will just have a general election where the Tories will get a massive majority and can then decide behind closed doors what they plan to do and parliament will just rubber stamp it


Given how things are playing out for the Tories, with embarrassment after embarrassment and the noise around article 50 hitting the UK financially very hard, I'm not seeing how the Tories could get a massive majority in 2020, as things look likely to get worse for them rather than better. Its not as if the Tory party or its voters are overwhelmingly behind Brexit (and likely to get less so as their business suffer), so the passage of legislation on Article 50 in Parliament is unlikely to be smooth sailing.

I do wonder where you get these fantastical ideas from.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4378  Postby Alan B » Nov 03, 2016 1:00 pm

If the government loses an appeal and the Supreme Court rules in favour of parliament, then this effectively makes The Three Stooges irrelevant until parliament decides.
And if they decide against Brexit then these three clowns could be out of a job. A pity May won't go with them.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4379  Postby Sendraks » Nov 03, 2016 1:05 pm

Alan B wrote:
And if they decide against Brexit then these three clowns could be out of a job. A pity May won't go with them.


If Parliament votes against a key Government policy such as Brexit or against primary legislation necessary for leaving the EU, then that could trigger a general election. One of the few instances where an early GE can actually occur.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4380  Postby nunnington » Nov 03, 2016 1:09 pm

I think it's unlikely that the Commons would vote against Brexit, as the consequences could be awful. Probably a massive Tory majority, and right wing mobs screeching about betrayal. Some individual MPs may well do, e.g. David Lammy, but he is probably in a strong Remain area. I don't think Labour has any choice but to support Brexit. If they opposed, they could be annihilated in Leave areas.
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