UK EU Referendum

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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4381  Postby chairman bill » Nov 03, 2016 1:13 pm

Now look, Brexit means Brexit, and that clearly means Brexit, so there! You just have to trust Boris, Poxy Foxy & the other one, to sort out those bally foreign types in Europe & elsewhere, remind them all about the British Empire and how we're going to be great again and send in a gunboat if they don't play ball.

And it's going to happen, because to not have Brexit would mean that May would have to a) face a very hostile party membership, who are pretty clearly anti-EU, b) face some very hostile Tory MPs, who are very divided & would fight tooth & nail for eternity, and c) have to do something about the swivel-eyed loons who'd regard it as an act of treason to not leave, and who'd cause a good deal of civil unrest. They're the same reasons she won't give us a second referendum. Fuck what's best for the country; it's what's best for PM May that matters now.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4382  Postby mrjonno » Nov 03, 2016 1:19 pm

Sendraks wrote:
mrjonno wrote:I suspect we will just have a general election where the Tories will get a massive majority and can then decide behind closed doors what they plan to do and parliament will just rubber stamp it


Given how things are playing out for the Tories, with embarrassment after embarrassment and the noise around article 50 hitting the UK financially very hard, I'm not seeing how the Tories could get a massive majority in 2020, as things look likely to get worse for them rather than better. Its not as if the Tory party or its voters are overwhelmingly behind Brexit (and likely to get less so as their business suffer), so the passage of legislation on Article 50 in Parliament is unlikely to be smooth sailing.

I do wonder where you get these fantastical ideas from.


What have the Tories got to do with it, your choice of government is Tory or Tory with the only real opposition being the city of London and the exchange rate on Sterling.

Now if Blair was to come back there could be a real battle for power, but until then we are a one party state
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4383  Postby Sendraks » Nov 03, 2016 1:26 pm

mrjonno wrote:What have the Tories got to do with it, your choice of government is Tory or Tory with the only real opposition being the city of London and the exchange rate on Sterling.


More fantastic non-sequitur waffle that doesn't remotely address the point being made.

mrjonno wrote:Now if Blair was to come back there could be a real battle for power,

What, between red Tories and blue Tories?
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4384  Postby chairman bill » Nov 03, 2016 1:30 pm

Sendraks wrote:More fantastic non-sequitur waffle that doesn't remotely address the point being made.


At least e's not letting his standards slip.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4385  Postby ronmcd » Nov 03, 2016 1:47 pm

chairman bill wrote:Now look, Brexit means Brexit, and that clearly means Brexit, so there!

Brexit means Breakfast. Can't believe some people still getting this wrong.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4386  Postby Alan B » Nov 03, 2016 2:18 pm

Yep. And Frying Pan means Frying Pan. So what!
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4387  Postby mrjonno » Nov 03, 2016 2:33 pm

Alan B wrote:Yep. And Frying Pan means Frying Pan. So what!


A English frying pan, made with English steel, using English oil and English bacon (with American growth hormones) to make an English sandwich
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4388  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 03, 2016 6:00 pm

Well what was a bloody mess has turned into the biggest turd ever. This is nuclear grade shit here.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4389  Postby Alan B » Nov 03, 2016 7:58 pm

So, we have two democratic decisions here. One as a result of lying and obfuscation and the other as a result of due process of law to combat a right-wing dictatorial 'Big Stick'.

Now, which one should I follow... :think:
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4390  Postby Byron » Nov 03, 2016 8:25 pm

Legally, this is as close to black letter as you get in the dizzying heights of public law: you can't use the Royal Prerogative to effect de facto repeal of primary legislation, let alone constitutional statutes, which are immune to implicit repeal.

Judges being people, this is was never just about law. I'm pleasantly surprised that this bench had the guts to defy the government, gutter press and the mob. As the appeal also comes down to the testicular fortitude of judges, wouldn't like to bet on which way it'll go in the Supreme Court.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4391  Postby Alan B » Nov 03, 2016 8:31 pm

mrjonno wrote:
Alan B wrote:Yep. And Frying Pan means Frying Pan. So what!


A English frying pan, made with English steel, using English oil and English bacon (with American growth hormones) to make an English sandwich


Danish bacon, I'll have you know! :snooty:
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4392  Postby Pulsar » Nov 03, 2016 9:53 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/03/brexit-will-be-titanic-success-says-boris-johnson

Brexit will be Titanic success, says Boris Johnson

Boris Johnson has said Britain will make a “Titanic success of Brexit” and compared himself to the dog strangled by Michael Heseltine as he collected a comeback of the year at the Spectator Awards on Thursday night.

“We are taking the machete of freedom to the brambles of EU regulation,” he said. “And we are in the process of creating something immensely positive for both sides of the Channel, a new European partnership between a strong UK and a strong EU. Believe me, that’s what people of this great continent want to achieve.”

He said he believed that Europe was coming to terms with the UK’s departure. “In the words of our great prime minister, they understand that Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”

“It sank,” said former chancellor George Osborne, who was presenting Johnson with his award.

:rofl:
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4393  Postby mcgruff » Nov 03, 2016 10:16 pm

Does anybody think Brexit will still go ahead? Staying must be the more likely option now.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4394  Postby Beatsong » Nov 03, 2016 10:27 pm

I think nunnington's right that the pressure on Labour to approve it could be irresistable. Any general election soon is going to be bad for Labour. One called for the very reason that they have rejected the will of the people expressed through the referendum will be worse than bad.

However, it's possible that the legal ruling will result in things being drawn out interminably, with article 50 not able to be invoked according to schedule, and constant rejections of whatever the government proposes on technical and procedural grounds.

If that happens, it's also possible that the economy and sterling will go ever further down the shitter in the meantime, and that people will get more of a tangible taste of just what a disaster they voted for. Then anything could happen. The lib dems have said they'll campaign for the next election on rerunning the referendum, and they're the second party in a lot of marginal tory seats. Corbyn will probably be gone by then.

Who knows...
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4395  Postby Byron » Nov 03, 2016 10:35 pm

mcgruff wrote:Does anybody think Brexit will still go ahead? Staying must be the more likely option now.

I doubt Parliament (Commons or Lords) will openly flout the result: MPs will fear for their seats; and even if the Lords dared to ignore the people, they can be overridden by the Parliament Acts. It may well constrain May to negotiating the Norway option of EEA membership, which is probably what she wants anyway, but she's playing a dangerous game of pretending that Britain can cut a bespoke deal. (Or, more worryingly, actually believes it.)

Britain may well stay in the EU, but only if the deal on offer's so bad that public opinion in England and Wales swings heavily against Brexit, and only if the other EU countries want Perfidious Albion around. Since it'd be a major victory for the EU, and a humiliation for the UK, they'd probably go for it if Britain ditched its opt-outs and rebate. In any case, it'd take another referendum.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4396  Postby Byron » Nov 03, 2016 10:45 pm

Beatsong wrote:I think nunnington's right that the pressure on Labour to approve it could be irresistable. Any general election soon is going to be bad for Labour. One called for the very reason that they have rejected the will of the people expressed through the referendum will be worse than bad.

However, it's possible that the legal ruling will result in things being drawn out interminably, with article 50 not able to be invoked according to schedule, and constant rejections of whatever the government proposes on technical and procedural grounds.

If that happens, it's also possible that the economy and sterling will go ever further down the shitter in the meantime, and that people will get more of a tangible taste of just what a disaster they voted for. Then anything could happen. The lib dems have said they'll campaign for the next election on rerunning the referendum, and they're the second party in a lot of marginal tory seats. Corbyn will probably be gone by then.

Who knows...

The markets jumped at the ruling. If the Supreme Court has the cojones to uphold the High Court's judgment (which I've now read, and looks rock-solid), and the March 2017 timetable's smoked, continued recovery may serve to diminish interest in Brexit (or, alternatively, lull people into a false sense of security).

In any case, if the UK stays in the EEA, the worst of Brexit's averted, and it'd probably be enough to keep the UK together for a few more years.
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4397  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 04, 2016 9:58 am

Now this is totally ridiculous:

British newspapers react to judges' Brexit ruling: 'Enemies of the people'

The high court determined that MPs must have a say on triggering Article 50. For some front pages, this was a display of judicial independence too far

High court Brexit ruling: what does it all mean?

On Thursday morning, the high court ruled that parliament – and not the prime minister by use of prerogative powers – would need to trigger Article 50 to start the UK’s exit from the European Union.

On Thursday evening, a portion of the British media exercised its own prerogative: to attack the judges behind the ruling.

More...


Of course the judgement does not block Brexit. Cant some action be taken against the Daily Wail?
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4398  Postby mrjonno » Nov 04, 2016 10:14 am

In any case, if the UK stays in the EEA, the worst of Brexit's averted, and it'd probably be enough to keep the UK together for a few more years.


The UK isn't together now, different classes living completely different lives and not speaking to each other because they have nothing in common same as in the US. I wonder if things are this bad in Canada/Australia?
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4399  Postby Fallible » Nov 04, 2016 10:16 am

lol
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Re: UK EU Referendum

#4400  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 04, 2016 10:20 am

There will be probably be a general election especially if the Supreme Court agrees with the three High Court judges.
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