Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#41  Postby trubble76 » Jan 24, 2012 4:06 pm

Agrippina wrote:
LarianLeQuella wrote:
Agrippina wrote: I think that our differences are really the thing that divides us to the extent that we aren't seen as something other than some "loonies" who hate everything and who mock everything. We need to find the thing that brings us together and concentrate on that rather than the things that we disagree about.


In my opinion, I think that tends to be the external view of atheists and freethinkers. Every time I get together with folks, we're usually laughing it up and having a jolly good time. Which may be the whole idea behind this event. To dispell that sort of negative image.

Agrippina wrote:And I don't think Richard Dawkins should be held up as the high priest.


Wasn't aware there even was such a position, let alone anyone in it. 8-)


The believers I talk to say that he is the "High Priest" of atheism, of course I always tell them they're mistaken, that is my position. Self-appointed of course. :whistle:


You can't be a priest, haven't you noticed the lack of penis, which is essential for a job like that?
:lol:
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#42  Postby Agrippina » Jan 24, 2012 4:35 pm

trubble76 wrote:
Agrippina wrote:
LarianLeQuella wrote:
Agrippina wrote: I think that our differences are really the thing that divides us to the extent that we aren't seen as something other than some "loonies" who hate everything and who mock everything. We need to find the thing that brings us together and concentrate on that rather than the things that we disagree about.


In my opinion, I think that tends to be the external view of atheists and freethinkers. Every time I get together with folks, we're usually laughing it up and having a jolly good time. Which may be the whole idea behind this event. To dispell that sort of negative image.

Agrippina wrote:And I don't think Richard Dawkins should be held up as the high priest.


Wasn't aware there even was such a position, let alone anyone in it. 8-)


The believers I talk to say that he is the "High Priest" of atheism, of course I always tell them they're mistaken, that is my position. Self-appointed of course. :whistle:


You can't be a priest, haven't you noticed the lack of penis, which is essential for a job like that?
:lol:


The head of the CoE doesn't either.
A mind without instruction can no more bear fruit than can a field, however fertile, without cultivation. - Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BCE - 43 BCE)
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#43  Postby LarianLeQuella » Jan 24, 2012 4:55 pm

If she's anything like my wife, she may have one in her purse. That's where my wife keeps mine.


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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#44  Postby Agrippina » Jan 24, 2012 4:56 pm

:rofl:
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#45  Postby iam43 » Jan 24, 2012 5:21 pm

Thanks for the invite pelfdaddy, but no thanks. When I visit a church, I pay my admission and check out the architecture and other wonders within. I understand your motivation and agree more than disagree with it, but I can't bring myself to become a free-loader crashing in on people going about their own lawful and private (yes private) business. Maybe you don't see it that way, but that's how it would look to me. I can't do it.

An atheist with a conscience eh? I'll cutting down to only eating 3 babies a day if this goes on...
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#46  Postby nunnington » Jan 24, 2012 5:27 pm

But if you go to an Anglican church in the UK, how will you tell the difference between the atheists and the regulars?
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#47  Postby iam43 » Jan 24, 2012 5:29 pm

nunnington wrote:But if you go to an Anglican church in the UK, how will you tell the difference between the atheists and the regulars?


The regulars have dust on them. They are also not taking photographs :grin:
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#48  Postby nunnington » Jan 24, 2012 6:38 pm

Possibly the atheists might broach the subject of theism and so on, but the regulars will think that's frightfully rude.
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#49  Postby Agrippina » Jan 24, 2012 6:45 pm

iam43 wrote:
nunnington wrote:But if you go to an Anglican church in the UK, how will you tell the difference between the atheists and the regulars?


The regulars have dust on them. They are also not taking photographs :grin:


:lol:
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#50  Postby Oldskeptic » Jan 25, 2012 1:34 am

quixotecoyote wrote:
Oldskeptic wrote:I just want people to stop believing in stupid shit when the evidence goes against stupid shit.


Congratulations, you're now preaching atheism.


Did I mention God or a god in that sentence?
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#51  Postby ispoketoanangel » Jan 25, 2012 5:23 am

Radical atheism is out of control! Leave our Churches alone!!!
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#52  Postby Oldskeptic » Jan 25, 2012 5:35 am

Atheistsarevermin wrote:Radical atheism is out of control! Leave our Churches alone!!!


The same could be said about fundamental Christians and our public schools.
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#53  Postby ispoketoanangel » Jan 25, 2012 5:39 am

Oldskeptic wrote:
Atheistsarevermin wrote:Radical atheism is out of control! Leave our Churches alone!!!


The same could be said about fundamental Christians and our public schools.


Oh look, it's grandpa again quoting me for his daily Atheistsarevermin reminder. :coffee:
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#54  Postby ispoketoanangel » Jan 25, 2012 5:40 am

Are you really 55.
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#55  Postby Fallible » Jan 25, 2012 11:27 am

ispoketoanangel wrote:Radical atheism is out of control! Leave our Churches alone!!!


Worried, are you?
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#56  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 25, 2012 11:44 am

ispoketoanangel wrote:Radical atheism is out of control! Leave our Churches alone!!!



Are you going to write 'radical atheism is out of control' in every thread you post in today?
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#57  Postby iam43 » Jan 25, 2012 12:28 pm

ispoketoanangel wrote:Radical atheism is out of control! Leave our Churches alone!!!


As so-called radical atheism seems mostly a product of your own imagination, you may have a point.

Tell you what, leave this forum alone and you've got yourself a deal. Can't speak for anyone else here though.
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#58  Postby pelfdaddy » Jan 25, 2012 2:59 pm

I now recognize more than ever the remarkable difference between the European and American perspectives. No one here is really disagreeing about facts, but about points of view. In the US, most people attend church, believe that atheists are dangerous, read the "Left Behind" series, are committed to an apocalyptic vision of some kind, and require politicians to pass the faith test. It truly is pervasive.

When I come across perspectives like that of Oldskeptic ("I've been an atheist for decades and I'm just telling you...you're wasting your time"), I understand and appreciate it, but cannot fully share it because I have already influenced several believers to the effect that they are now happier for it; and I cannot help but be sanguine.

I like Agrippina's idea, and apart from the usual difficulties of gettting "freethinkers" to do anything as a group, I would love to see an International Freethinkers Guild that actually took part in meaningful activities and promoted Humanism, etc.

Atheists' Go To Church Day, or the official title Atheists for Peaceful Cooexistence, is intended to be just such an activity. We simply show up as a way of saying, We are your neighbors, we are the people with whom you have to share this world.

Think about this: The three monotheistic faiths share a common view that the Creator of the Universe is especially concerned about some real estate on the Eastern shore of the Mediterranean, and that there is no point in creating for ourselves a viable future because paradise will one day be given to us magically in that same region. The catch is that only after genocide has been unleashed on this world will that gift be granted. And the geopolitics of the region, and the fact that we are "nation-building" in the first place, is heavily influenced by the huge American voting block that sees the world in this freakish way and interprets world events according to prophecy.

What if we could shave a little off that voting block? What if we could sufficiently influence enough believers to be less dogmatic about these beliefs to actually help the situation? What if Republicans only had to pander to 90 million fundamentalist evangelical voters instead of 100 million?
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#59  Postby Agrippina » Jan 25, 2012 3:26 pm

@pelfdaddy you would be edging closer to my dream.

I really would love to see the world and most people who populate it, view religion as something "quaint" and part of their culture rather than as the basis of their worldview.

I believe it can be achieved by atheists being more co-operative and finding points of agreement rather than concentrating on points of disagreement. A friend of mine who is pretty much vocal about her atheism and some other people in her circle see forums like this one and the old RD forum as a place for ganging up on believers and where they are ridiculed and made to feel inferior.

One of our members started a thread last week, asking why my approach is "different." I don't think so because sometimes I do have some really nasty thoughts about what I would like to do to people like the priests who rape children. But I do believe that kind encouragement to learn will achieve a lot more than ridicule, which, while it can be fun, often drives people away, who may otherwise be convinced to open their minds a little and look at the evidence we use to try to convince them.

I realise it's difficult to be patient with people like some I could mention when they are being deliberately provoking and apparently obtuse and that it leads to frustration. I've been guilty of some pretty nasty comments myself, so I'm not on a high perch here. I think your idea is a good one, but I know that if I did it in my town it would be seen as provocation and I wouldn't have to deal with the fallout, my DH would have to answer questions about why I deliberately "started a fight" even if I didn't.
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Re: Go to Church on Sunday, June 24th

#60  Postby pelfdaddy » Jan 25, 2012 5:58 pm

I wholly agree. It may not be about getting atheists to behave better, since mild, well-placed ridicule does have a softening effect, and it probably is not about logic and reason either, since believers don't actually believe for reasons in the first place.

It's about the attractiveness of the alternative.

Believers generally feel the weight of believing things that are difficult to hoist above the shoulders, the disappointment of unanswered prayer, and the awkwardness of their own apologists. But they are fearful of "what's out there" in the absence of God.

Believers are inadequately exposed to the ideals of humansim, the blessings of secularism, the power of the scientific method. They are genuinely worried about the absence of absolute morality, the loss of beauty and mystery, and the "dark side" of technology. I am in favor of exposing them to our better ideals whenever possible. I am in favor of others becoming as free as I am.

This is why I also favor practically anything non-believers do to advance these ideals, whether this involves debate, ridicule, collective activism, billboards, literature, culture, or personal outreach. There is no good reason to assume this is all a waste of time because believers are somehow intractable. Many of us were religious, but no longer are. I think good things are possible. I guess I'm a believer.
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