Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Heydrich...

The list of infamy goes on.

And it is infamy (if not evil, but that's another question).

The point of this thread is:

a) We all are islands with one life

b) When we die it is over

c) It is therefore best to create as big a fuss and ripple as possible

d) Some will be "good". Some will be "evil"

e) But we all die and cease to exist

f) Therefore create as MUCH "good" or as MUCH "evil" as possible

g) Push yourself to your limit before non-existence.

h) Hitler's existence was infinitely more exciting and historic ("worthwhile") than almost all the billions of humans who have ever lived.

i) Hitler may have enjoyed the most exhilarating and rewarding existence in the history of the universe.

All of this is extremely disconcerting.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Ok I'll bite...

e) But we all die and cease to exist
f) Therefore create as MUCH "good" or as MUCH "evil" as possibe

Why "therefore"? Explain.

CookieJon wrote:Ok I'll bite...

e) But we all die and cease to exist
f) Therefore create as MUCH "good" or as MUCH "evil" as possibe

Why "therefore"? Explain.

Good point.

I suppose that the sheer extremism of Nazism, the creation of such polarity kind of creates the question ( even if it doesn't beg it).

If nothing else, shouldn't we strive to be the best we can be - if we are naturally psychopaths, shouldn't we be the best psychopath, if we are naturally "saints" shouldn't we strive to be the best? Isn't everything left in the middle a mixture of laziness and apathy?

I've often thought about this issue. We all like to revile someone like Gadafi (well, not all) but what a life he lived. Even if it did end badly. I see a hint of jealousy in people who rejoice in the death of such characters. A lot of people are angered when ruthless people slip through our justice and die peacefully in their sleep so they have to dream up a hell to avenge themselves on them. Hell is actually a sick fantasy people have tried to will into a reality. How unpleasant it is for us to admit that these people lived diabolical lives, took what they wanted, done whatever they pleased, died having sampled a glorious existence full of experience and memory and there was nothing anyone could do about it.

I should say this...

"The Magnificence of Nazism" was a slight piece of propaganda to gain views in the hope that the OP would be thought provoking enough for a bit of chatter.

There is. of course, nothing magnificent about Nazism (apart from the uniforms, films and astonishing photographic portraits of the hierarchy)

devogue wrote:I should say this...

"The Magnificence of Nazism" was a slight piece of propaganda to gain views in the hope that the OP would be thought provoking enough for a bit of chatter.

There is. of course, nothing magnificent about Nazism (apart from the uniforms, films and astonishing photographic portraits of the hierarchy)

And awesome (in the true sense of that overused word) architecture.

Animavore wrote:I've often thought about this issue. We all like to revile someone like Gadafi (well, not all) but what a life he lived. Even if it did end badly. I see a hint of jealousy in people who rejoice in the death of such characters. A lot of people are angered when ruthless people slip through our justice and die peacefully in their sleep so they have to dream up a hell to avenge themselves on them. Hell is actually a sick fantasy people have tried to will into a reality. How unpleasant it is for us to admit that these people lived diabolical lives, took what they wanted, done whatever they pleased, died having sampled a glorious existence full of experience and memory and there was nothing anyone could do about it.

Thank you.

Imagine the sheer majesty and astonishing colour of Adolf Hitler's existence from his perspective.

devogue wrote:

Animavore wrote:I've often thought about this issue. We all like to revile someone like Gadafi (well, not all) but what a life he lived. Even if it did end badly. I see a hint of jealousy in people who rejoice in the death of such characters. A lot of people are angered when ruthless people slip through our justice and die peacefully in their sleep so they have to dream up a hell to avenge themselves on them. Hell is actually a sick fantasy people have tried to will into a reality. How unpleasant it is for us to admit that these people lived diabolical lives, took what they wanted, done whatever they pleased, died having sampled a glorious existence full of experience and memory and there was nothing anyone could do about it.

Thank you.

Imagine the sheer majesty and astonishing colour of Adolf Hitler's existence from his perspective.

I imagine it was amazing. Though I do wonder what it all meant to him just before he shot himself. The revenge fantasist might dream up a version where Hitler realises the futility of it all and breaks down but he could just as easily have been laughing his ass off.

Animavore wrote:

devogue wrote:

Animavore wrote:I've often thought about this issue. We all like to revile someone like Gadafi (well, not all) but what a life he lived. Even if it did end badly. I see a hint of jealousy in people who rejoice in the death of such characters. A lot of people are angered when ruthless people slip through our justice and die peacefully in their sleep so they have to dream up a hell to avenge themselves on them. Hell is actually a sick fantasy people have tried to will into a reality. How unpleasant it is for us to admit that these people lived diabolical lives, took what they wanted, done whatever they pleased, died having sampled a glorious existence full of experience and memory and there was nothing anyone could do about it.

Thank you.

Imagine the sheer majesty and astonishing colour of Adolf Hitler's existence from his perspective.

I imagine it was amazing. Though I do wonder what it all meant to him just before he shot himself. The revenge fantasist might dream up a version where Hitler realises the futility of it all and breaks but he could just easily have been laughing his ass off.

And even if he did realise the futility and enormity of his actions, he could still think "I owned Europe" before he bit down on the capsule and pulled the trigger. It was all over in an instant.

I will say the following words in an extremely reserved and conditional manner:

Wow. What a human being.

Imagine the sheer majesty and astonishing colour of Adolf Hitler's existence from his perspective.

Unusually for such a person Hitler didn't award himself huge numbers of titles and military awards. Many of these people who obviously think highly of themselves invent titles and award themselves medals they would not normally be entitled to. Hitler had his Iron Cross earned in WW1 and a few others from that period but not much else. He regularly refused titles and medals from other nations apparently.

Compare that with Idi Amin who awarded himself fake versions of British medals and gave himself titles until he was "His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular"

Animavore wrote:

Stand up and feel the howling breeze!

I can only say that I personally wouldn't be able to harm others with the sole intent of enriching or empowering myself. I simply wouldn't be able to live with myself. I feel terrible as it is at the slightest inconvenience or harm to others caused by me. I guess that puts me in the 'saint' box.

There's no doubt though that the 'squeaky wheel gets the oil', and the people who are loud and obnoxious and are able to just take whatever they want, get the most, at least for a while.

I was thinking of making a thread about something similar myself actually, after having watched a few atheist videos on YouTube, in which the magnificence of, and awe for the universe etc. is pushed as creating meaning, and I was thinking of asking if we truly live our lives with the recognition that this is all we get? Do we in general do what we want, and should we? Are we savoring every minute, skydiving and globe trotting until the 'Reaper' gets us? Some do, I suppose - most don't I think.

As for not being an asshole, I could only besiege people not to, based in empathy, a sense that 'I' am part of 'we', and a bit of non-supernatural 'karma'. For those who lack that quality or the ability to understand that the pain they sometimes feel can equally be felt by others, I guess there's not much I could say.

I think even Hitler wanted to live a good life with a family and friends and with laughter and good things, he just didn't extend that right or those emotions to people he considered to be 'lower' than himself.

Perhaps he had second thoughts about that when he felt forced to pull the trigger eventually, and perhaps felt some of the dread that the victims of his views had felt. Perhaps not.

Jumbo wrote:

Imagine the sheer majesty and astonishing colour of Adolf Hitler's existence from his perspective.

Unusually for such a person Hitler didn't award himself huge numbers of titles and military awards. Many of these people who obviously think highly of themselves invent titles and award themselves medals they would not normally be entitled to. Hitler had his Iron Cross earned in WW1 and a few others from that period but not much else. He regularly refused titles and medals from other nations apparently.

Compare that with Idi Amin who awarded himself fake versions of British medals and gave himself titles until he was "His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular"

Tacky. Like the Mister T of eccentric dictators.

John P. M. wrote:I can only say that I personally wouldn't be able to harm others with the sole intent of enriching or empowering myself. I simply wouldn't be able to live with myself. I feel terrible as it is at the slightest inconvenience or harm to others caused by me. I guess that puts me in the 'saint' box.

There's no doubt though that the 'squeaky wheel gets the oil', and the people who are loud and obnoxious and are able to just take whatever they want, get the most, at least for a while.

I was thinking of making a thread about something similar myself actually, after having watched a few atheist videos on YouTube, in which the magnificence of, and awe for the universe etc. is pushed as creating meaning, and I was thinking of asking if we truly live our lives with the recognition that this is all we get? Do we in general do what we want, and should we? Are we savoring every minute, skydiving and globe trotting until the 'Reaper' gets us? Some do, I suppose - most don't I think.

As for not being an asshole, I could only besiege people not to, based in empathy, a sense that 'I' am part of 'we', and a bit of non-supernatural 'karma'. For those who lack that quality or the ability to understand that the pain they sometimes feel can equally be felt by others, I guess there's not much I could say.

I think even Hitler wanted to live a good life with a family and friends and with laughter and good things, he just didn't extend that right or those emotions to people he considered to be 'lower' than himself.

Perhaps he had second thoughts about that when he felt forced to pull the trigger eventually, and perhaps felt some of the dread that the victims of his views had felt. Perhaps not.

What an amazing post!

devogue wrote:

CookieJon wrote:Ok I'll bite...

e) But we all die and cease to exist
f) Therefore create as MUCH "good" or as MUCH "evil" as possibe

Why "therefore"? Explain.

Good point.

I suppose that the sheer extremism of Nazism, the creation of such polarity kind of creates the question ( even if it doesn't beg it).

If nothing else, shouldn't we strive to be the best we can be - if we are naturally psychopaths, shouldn't we be the best psychopath, if we are naturally "saints" shouldn't we strive to be the best? Isn't everything left in the middle a mixture of laziness and apathy?

Was there an explanation in amongst that rhetoric?

Why shouldn't we strive for mediocrity? Explain.

CookieJon wrote:Why shouldn't we strive for mediocrity? Explain.

Striving for mediocrity is like kicking a duvet in to position.

devogue wrote:What an amazing post!

Thank you.

devogue wrote:

CookieJon wrote:Why shouldn't we strive for mediocrity? Explain.

Striving for mediocrity is like kicking a duvet in to position.

And one shouldn't do that because...?

devogue wrote:

CookieJon wrote:Why shouldn't we strive for mediocrity? Explain.

Striving for mediocrity is like kicking a duvet in to position.

Which in itself is no mean feat. Still working on it, btw. I plan to leave this Valley of Tears as the most magnificent duvet-kicker there ever was.