Having a go as Japan, looks fun. Fujiwara needs the shogunate, first on the agenda.

ETA: Hired ninjas BECAUSE I CAN!!

Spearthrower wrote:Personal unions are bloody frustrating. I've been in one with The Palatinate for 3 monarchs now, and even with 'trust us utterly', 200 relations, all positive treaties, and either not at war or in a mutual war, but they just won't become part of France!

France Personally Unionised me while I was sailing around the Tierra del Fuego. Le bastards. Kept dragging me into all their fucking wars.

Sounds like a good game this, got £140 in Amazon vouchers might be time to invest some of my precious time

Thommo wrote:Having a go as Japan, looks fun. Fujiwara needs the shogunate, first on the agenda.

ETA: Hired ninjas BECAUSE I CAN!!

Since I upgraded to Divine Wind from vanilla, I've never yet seen Japan form!

Spearthrower wrote:

Thommo wrote:Having a go as Japan, looks fun. Fujiwara needs the shogunate, first on the agenda.

ETA: Hired ninjas BECAUSE I CAN!!

Since I upgraded to Divine Wind from vanilla, I've never yet seen Japan form!

It was going well, until the shogun got us into a war with Ming, who had an army of ~100k troops.

We fought our way to a standstill and a white peace, pretty much annihilating the armies of the other 3 Daimyos, so I thought, time for me and my ninjas to pounce...

Only because of all the prestige and co-operation we did through our 7 year war with Ming, I failed to notice the Shogun gain 100% influence FFS.

Now I can't make any diplomatic move with any of the Daimyus, can't even send the shogun an insult to let him know what a dick he was dragging us into that war. And before Japan is formed you can't make diplomacy (including declaring war or peace) with the foreign nations either.

I guess it's much easier if you start out with the Shogunate, or at least realise what happens if you let his influence get too high. I'm mulling over starting over, othewise it could be a decade before he has enough forces to start a war and I can actually do... anything again.

Thommo wrote:
It was going well, until the shogun got us into a war with Ming, who had an army of ~100k troops.
....
Only because of all the prestige and co-operation we did through our 7 year war with Ming, I failed to notice the Shogun gain 100% influence FFS.

You would've thought he'd have been shown where to place his katana.

Spearthrower wrote:
Now, all taxes in overseas provinces are converted to tariffs, which are handled very differently; the most important consequence of which is that production will be far more valuable in the mid to late game than trade, now.

I just realized that youre right -- all production and taxes are converted to tariffs in provinces that have no connection to your capital, now. You lose 30%, too.

However, I dont know about production being far more valuable than trade in the mid to late game. It depends on which country youre playing. If youre France with a huge empire of interconnected rich European provinces, the money you make from production is going to be so high that you could pretty much ignore trade if you wanted. But if youre a smaller country with very high trade tech, you can pretty much dominate every good CoT and really rake it in. In my EU3 game as Portugal, its around 1700, pretty late in the game, and I just stopped playing because it was too easy; I was making so much from trade that I was 9 years ahead of everyone in every tech, could support a huge military, and could kick superpower ass, like France and Austria, in a war with ease.

Spearthrower wrote:Secondly, CoT's no longer appear - you have to have a national focus nearby, then pay 500 ducats to build a CoT. This means you can strategically locate your CoTs to maximise your profits.

Yeah, youre right. You have to buy CoTs now. In old versions of EU, they would randomly appear. Portugal is one of my favorite countries to play, and all the different games Ive played as portugal in different versions of EU are kind of blending together.

Spearthrower wrote:Finally, trade's much easier in the early game - you can normally get 5 traders in most of the European CoT's without too many difficulties. The mercantilism / free trade slider has very different benefits than before, plus plutocracy really powers trade values.

I dont know about this. It depends on which country you play. Bigger, rich countries with decent trade tech will be able to get 5 merchants in one or a few CoTs early in the game. Portugal is too poor at start to concentrate on more than one CoT. They should probably stick to the CoT near them in Andalusia as theyll constantly lose their merchants to competition in other CoTs, early in the game.

mrjonno wrote:Sounds like a good game this, got £140 in Amazon vouchers might be time to invest some of my precious time

It's cheap as chips mrjonno, should be under 15 pounds on amazon.

I''ve got Heart of Iron 3 which I havent got around to installing it, same company makes it I think.
Anyone know if this is any good?

Well I've got my greasy mits on the chronicles collection of EU3, I'm still too afraid to play in case I become one with the couch. Also, there is A LOT of variables. Fuck, if you lot can manage then I guess it's doable.

mrjonno wrote:I''ve got Heart of Iron 3 which I havent got around to installing it, same company makes it I think.
Anyone know if this is any good?

I am not sure which one of these I played; HoI series or Victoria, but there's really only 1 word for them: impenetrable.

You fire up the game for the first time, and you are faced with absolutely cluelessness for the forseeable future. You really have to work through the mountainous learning curve to get the most out of those games.

HughMcB wrote:Well I've got my greasy mits on the chronicles collection of EU3, I'm still too afraid to play in case I become one with the couch. Also, there is A LOT of variables. Fuck, if you lot can manage then I guess it's doable.

Considering I bought EU3 when it came out and really only played it for a brief period, it's quite amazing how addicted I've become since I reinstalled it then upgraded to Chronicles.

It's a bit too good. Just wait until you're laying in bed dozing off with those meandering thoughts, and you suddenly realise you're planning your double-pronged invasion of Korea.

Spearthrower wrote:

mrjonno wrote:I''ve got Heart of Iron 3 which I havent got around to installing it, same company makes it I think.
Anyone know if this is any good?

I am not sure which one of these I played; HoI series or Victoria, but there's really only 1 word for them: impenetrable.

You fire up the game for the first time, and you are faced with absolutely cluelessness for the forseeable future. You really have to work through the mountainous learning curve to get the most out of those games.

I've played HoI 1 & 2. Not sure about 3, but some people don't like it as much as HoI 2.

Yeah, the HoI series are complex games. I'm such a major gaming dork that that didn't stop me from getting into them.

The main problem with the Hearts of Iron games is the poor AI. If you're playing as Germany, the AI can't handle a proper invasion of Normandy, and tries to make up for it by "cheating" with Russia and giving them loads of extra manpower and production.

Another Paradox game I've been getting into lately is Crusader Kings 2. It's basically a medieval dynasty simulator; you start as a European count, duke, or king, and try to build up your dynasty's power and prestige through strategic marriage, plotting, and war. It's very addictive; you guys should give it a try.

I have CKII.

My Anglo-Saxons have cavalry and archers.

It just grates.

Shagz wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

mrjonno wrote:I''ve got Heart of Iron 3 which I havent got around to installing it, same company makes it I think.
Anyone know if this is any good?

I am not sure which one of these I played; HoI series or Victoria, but there's really only 1 word for them: impenetrable.

You fire up the game for the first time, and you are faced with absolutely cluelessness for the forseeable future. You really have to work through the mountainous learning curve to get the most out of those games.

I've played HoI 1 & 2. Not sure about 3, but some people don't like it as much as HoI 2.

Yeah, the HoI series are complex games. I'm such a major gaming dork that that didn't stop me from getting into them.

The main problem with the Hearts of Iron games is the poor AI. If you're playing as Germany, the AI can't handle a proper invasion of Normandy, and tries to make up for it by "cheating" with Russia and giving them loads of extra manpower and production.

Another Paradox game I've been getting into lately is Crusader Kings 2. It's basically a medieval dynasty simulator; you start as a European count, duke, or king, and try to build up your dynasty's power and prestige through strategic marriage, plotting, and war. It's very addictive; you guys should give it a try.

HOI 3 is light years better than HOI 2 in my opinion. You need the Semper Fi add on and the latest patch though, or else it's shitty and buggy. The Motherland add on is nice too, but Semper Fi is basically mandatory.

Definitely more complex than EU3, but the interface is more intuitive and you can have the AI automate just about anything.

Shagz wrote:
Another Paradox game I've been getting into lately is Crusader Kings 2. It's basically a medieval dynasty simulator; you start as a European count, duke, or king, and try to build up your dynasty's power and prestige through strategic marriage, plotting, and war. It's very addictive; you guys should give it a try.

I picked that up too, although i've only really had time for a hundred years of 1 game.

Unfortunately, it just didn't snag me. It seems like the best possible outcome is for nothing to happen... ever. Stuff happening is generally bad and means trotting round your kingdom smashing down your dukes. I proudly formed the Kingdom of Ireland, battered all the barons into submission, created a few duchies, and the world was good. Then, the next generations' King died young, his heir produced 6 girls and no boys, and when the eldest daughter was crowned, my realm exploded. As far as I could tell, that's what would keep happening - and life would only get tougher as I gained more provinces. It's certainly very interesting as far as a kind of sim Feudal system, but not sure there's enough game there to keep me occupied.

Spearthrower wrote:

Shagz wrote:
Another Paradox game I've been getting into lately is Crusader Kings 2. It's basically a medieval dynasty simulator; you start as a European count, duke, or king, and try to build up your dynasty's power and prestige through strategic marriage, plotting, and war. It's very addictive; you guys should give it a try.

I picked that up too, although i've only really had time for a hundred years of 1 game.

Unfortunately, it just didn't snag me. It seems like the best possible outcome is for nothing to happen... ever. Stuff happening is generally bad and means trotting round your kingdom smashing down your dukes. I proudly formed the Kingdom of Ireland, battered all the barons into submission, created a few duchies, and the world was good. Then, the next generations' King died young, his heir produced 6 girls and no boys, and when the eldest daughter was crowned, my realm exploded. As far as I could tell, that's what would keep happening - and life would only get tougher as I gained more provinces. It's certainly very interesting as far as a kind of sim Feudal system, but not sure there's enough game there to keep me occupied.

Fair enough. The game is not for everyone, I guess.

In my game, I started as a count with one province in the Holy Roman Empire, and then slowly expanded my demesne by fabricating claims on neighboring provinces. I'd have an exciting little civil war every time my king died. After about 200 years I was able to form the Kingdom of Germany. Then I married my heir to the eldest daughter of the King of Lothagaria and murdered his three sons so the daughter would be the heir. My heir and the King's daughter had a son who was heir to both Germany and Lothagaria. Eventually, the kid inherited both kingdoms, and I declared independence and fought a civil war with the HRE.

I guess that's one thing I like about the game -- that is, your kingdom isn't made up of docile lackeys, but of plotting bastards like yourself. I like that my subjects get unruly from time to time. Maybe I'm a masochist or something.

Don't get me wrong: I can certainly imagine how and why it appeals; it's just that it doesn't have a hook for me. I do like sandbox games where you are free to make up your own objectives... but I can't really think of a single objective I want to achieve. Normally, I'd think something like 'First, I want the whole of the British Isles. But successful expansion just seems to create endless cycles of problems. I realise that the unit of interest in the game is meant to be the bloodline rather than the nation, but I can't find an objective there to hook onto - what is it? 'First, i want to shag... lots - then I want my son to shag... lots'

And that cycle of problems is just plain irritating too (basically, it's like revolts in EU3). After getting frustrated with all my nobles rebelling, I'd take a low-born noble from my court, raise him up to landed nobility, giving him titles, lands, treasure, and finding him a suitable wife from a respected bloodline in the glories of a European court.... and the moment I make them a Duke, they stab me in the back and declare war on me with their 1k army against my 20k personal reserves. If it was once or twice, fair play... but it seems that every retainer eventually gets frisky, ends up in prison, then hates me ever after.

Still, all that said, I am not knocking the game: it's a truly novel game experience, and it's great to see companies like Paradox that make games they love rather than churning out the mass-consumption pap. I'm happy I bought it, even if just to support them!

I am really terrible with this game: I just can't seem to finish one!

I went from the France game I was talking about above to a Byzantium game where constant horde bother has forced me to take massive areas of land north of the Black Sea, as far East as the Caspian Sea, and all the way South to the equator. Persia finally formed, cutting me off from the massive Timurid empire which appears to have vassalised every other country it borders! I had no choice but to colonise a lot of lands in this area as the Tims had taken all of the Mamluks in Asia, and they were fielding armies of 150k, all of which were coming at me.

As I am currently colonising that small nomad nation that starts West of Timurids, I just have the Golden Horde and Nogai to deal with for the first time in 70 years of playing at speed 1! The problem is that I don't want any more of their lands (i took far more than I had planned to), so the war continues!

In fact, it's only about 1500, and it's taken much longer than usual in actual play time to get there - having 4 nomad neighbours makes it crucial to pay attention to the calendar so you can rotate peace deals to ensure all 4 don't attack you at once!

One thing that's been a real pain in the arse is the reported % chance. When I colonised the nomads with Novgorod/Russia - I had no problems. With Byzantium the reported success chance was 73% to colonise, but it's more like a 73% failure rate! I spent 16 colonists over 8 years on trying to get a colony in a single province!

The other fun thing was using my reconquest CB's on the Mediterranean islands: one was in Spain's influence, one was allied with France, they were all guaranteed by half of Europe, and as an Orthodox nation, the defender of the faith (England) also joined in. Then ALL their allies joined in - I've never had to click so many message pop-ups.

It was effectively the first World War of 1490, and only about 50,000 soldiers died! It was the sailors who bore the brunt of this one! I decided early game that control of the straits was the single most important thing for Byzantium, and so I kept my fleet up to the forcelimits - when this all began, I had 68 galleys in my single attack fleet. When it finished, I had 139 ships, including ones I still can't build! Fortunately, Castille's armada didn't show up. Now Southern Italy beckons, and I might finally get round to doing a mission!

Byzantium is pretty fun. As I'm sure you realize, you have to keep a large fleet early on, so the Ottomans can't get across the Bosphorus with their huge army. In my game, I had a couple of early wars against the Ottomans and barely held on. One time, the Ottomans declared war, and were allied with a couple other large moslem nations like Algiers. Their combined fleets could have crushed my fleet, and my army was a fraction the size of the Ottomans. I thought I was gonna get my ass kicked; somehow, they never combined their fleets and I was able to beat all their fleets one at a time, and had to hire mercs to fight off the numerous armies they kept dropping off in Greece. After that, the pope declared a crusade against the Ottomans, or something like that; a lot of big christian countries began ganging up on the Ottomans and they went into decline, allowing me eventually take all of what is modern-day Turkey.

That's pretty impressive that you were that big that early. I don't think I bothered to colonize any of the nomad nations. I remember being pretty annoyed when one that bordered me kept declaring war. I think Sweden and Lithuania ended up colonizing all of the nomads.