I've been really enjoying my Japan games, sadly I had to start over. I reached 1490 with unification a scant 20ish years off when disaster struck, one of my provinces broke free during a rather bad period of instability and war, with the result that they were at peace with Japan and at war with Fujiwara (this should not be able to happen as Japan is the umbrella with which you can take foreign actions as shogun). I could no longer use diplomatic actions with a large range of countries rendering the game bugged beyond repair.

My second game is going quite well, Minamoto is reduced to 3 provinces, so he's doomed to either vassalisation or annexation next time Fujiwara's infamy is low enough to make another civil war in Japan, I'm in a PU with Taira due to yield them to me in about 1510, but Tachibana remains a nuisance, the only time they were illegitimate enough to force a PU I had a treaty with them, making it a no go.

Interestingly I've made it to 1470 with only 2 rulers, the current one has a 50 year old heir, which doesn't bode well.

Shagz wrote:
That's pretty impressive that you were that big that early. I don't think I bothered to colonize any of the nomad nations. I remember being pretty annoyed when one that bordered me kept declaring war. I think Sweden and Lithuania ended up colonizing all of the nomads.

I had to occupy their lands to try to control it with 4 nomad neighbours. I'd occupy their lands for a decade or so until revolts broke out all over their place, then ask for tribute. But I had to keep moving my troops back and forth, and it was annoying! So I started colonising... and then just a couple more preciousss provincesss... and oops over-extension!

It's all good now - the entire realm is near revolt free, and I have taken Southern Italy. The sad fact is that I groomed Muscowy, allying with them, letting them take nomad lands to give them some more territory... and when I get the mission to retake the Holy City, it's Muscowy that's the Defender of the Faith! I didn't spot it before, but Muscowy converted to Catholicism, then converted all its provinces too! I really want to keep Muscowy as an ally, so I am sitting waiting for someone else to get enough prestige to claim the title. I think it will be Castille who owns all of North Africa - just 1 Mamluks province between the great Castillian empire and my own Southern borders. However, my fleet is more than enough now to protect my islands, which now also include Sardinia and Malta. And I've finally westernised my military: what a headache that was - so there'll be a nasty surprise waiting for Castille's entry into the Byzantine Conquest of Rome.

I have an idea, Spearthrower. How about we start a new game, both playing the same country. Anyone else who wants to can participate also, of course. We'll post screenshots here and describe how the game is going. It would be interesting to see how things develop when the same country is played by different people with different playstyles.

edit: Just to clarify, I'm proposing we all play separate games, not the same saved game.

Shagz wrote:I have an idea, Spearthrower. How about we start a new game, both playing the same country. Anyone else who wants to can participate also, of course. We'll post screenshots here and describe how the game is going. It would be interesting to see how things develop when the same country is played by different people with different playstyles.

edit: Just to clarify, I'm proposing we all play separate games, not the same saved game.

That sounds like a great idea! Obviously, our games would diverge from the 2nd day regardless of whether we clicked exactly the same buttons, but reading this thread has been really interesting for me to see how other people play (with me the imperial tyrant) - so I am in.

The only thing is that I am just a tad busy at work for the moment, so updates might be short or sporadic.

Which country do you propose? I'd say someone Western (cos I can't face another Westernisation after yesterday's!), someone neither too big nor too small (OPM's are fun, but a lot of time passes with very little happening).

Spearthrower wrote:........ However, my fleet is more than enough now to protect my islands, which now also include Sardinia and Malta.

Gahhh! Scratch that! Last night before bed I loaded up an old Brandenburg game, played for about a month, decided it was bed time, and accidentally saved over my Byzantium game.... well, they do both begin with B ... so now I am back to before that war and no longer have Sardinia!

Spearthrower wrote:

Shagz wrote:I have an idea, Spearthrower. How about we start a new game, both playing the same country. Anyone else who wants to can participate also, of course. We'll post screenshots here and describe how the game is going. It would be interesting to see how things develop when the same country is played by different people with different playstyles.

edit: Just to clarify, I'm proposing we all play separate games, not the same saved game.

That sounds like a great idea! Obviously, our games would diverge from the 2nd day regardless of whether we clicked exactly the same buttons, but reading this thread has been really interesting for me to see how other people play (with me the imperial tyrant) - so I am in.

The only thing is that I am just a tad busy at work for the moment, so updates might be short or sporadic.

Which country do you propose? I'd say someone Western (cos I can't face another Westernisation after yesterday's!), someone neither too big nor too small (OPM's are fun, but a lot of time passes with very little happening).

School is starting for me, so I won't have tons of time myself. But I could probably get in a few hours here and there.

As for the country. Must be Western. Hmm. Maybe Denmark. Scotland, maybe? Milan? Any of those sound appealing?

Shagz wrote: Maybe Denmark. Scotland, maybe? Milan? Any of those sound appealing?

I've never played Denmark or Scotland - the former sounds interesting as the latter will eventually become a Great Britain game otherwise.

I also have no idea how to play Denmark, so it will be interesting to see why all that stuff goes on up there with Sweden and Finland.

I can tell you 1 thing right away: the Hansa's ain't going to live for long!

Spearthrower wrote:

Shagz wrote: Maybe Denmark. Scotland, maybe? Milan? Any of those sound appealing?

I've never played Denmark or Scotland - the former sounds interesting as the latter will eventually become a Great Britain game otherwise.

I also have no idea how to play Denmark, so it will be interesting to see why all that stuff goes on up there with Sweden and Finland.

I can tell you 1 thing right away: the Hansa's ain't going to live for long!

Yeah, Scotland might be a little easy, too. Denmark it is, then.

Shagz wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Shagz wrote: Maybe Denmark. Scotland, maybe? Milan? Any of those sound appealing?

I've never played Denmark or Scotland - the former sounds interesting as the latter will eventually become a Great Britain game otherwise.

I also have no idea how to play Denmark, so it will be interesting to see why all that stuff goes on up there with Sweden and Finland.

I can tell you 1 thing right away: the Hansa's ain't going to live for long!

Yeah, Scotland might be a little easy, too. Denmark it is, then.

I've been having a think about this as I've been working (my brain only needs to be 20% on the job) and realised that the Hansa may have to stay there for quite some time.

If I remember correctly, Denmark starts as the leader of a personal union with both Sweden and Norway. Norway's in the pocket, but Sweden can grow a bigger army, in which case they'll start spamming insults to break the union. So dealing with that is going to be the first task, and I can think of several strategies for it - so it looks like our games will diverge very quickly!

Denmark, eh?

Spearthrower wrote:

Shagz wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:

Shagz wrote: Maybe Denmark. Scotland, maybe? Milan? Any of those sound appealing?

I've never played Denmark or Scotland - the former sounds interesting as the latter will eventually become a Great Britain game otherwise.

I also have no idea how to play Denmark, so it will be interesting to see why all that stuff goes on up there with Sweden and Finland.

I can tell you 1 thing right away: the Hansa's ain't going to live for long!

Yeah, Scotland might be a little easy, too. Denmark it is, then.

I've been having a think about this as I've been working (my brain only needs to be 20% on the job) and realised that the Hansa may have to stay there for quite some time.

If I remember correctly, Denmark starts as the leader of a personal union with both Sweden and Norway. Norway's in the pocket, but Sweden can grow a bigger army, in which case they'll start spamming insults to break the union. So dealing with that is going to be the first task, and I can think of several strategies for it - so it looks like our games will diverge very quickly!

I've never played a Scandinavian country. I do seem to remember that there are some personal unions going on at the start.
I can see how the Hansa is a nice target. Especially the province of Lubeck, with that CoT. They're in the HRE, though, and no doubt Bohemia would come to their defense, plus lots of little countries that they'll be allied with.

Shagz wrote:
I've never played a Scandinavian country. I do seem to remember that there are some personal unions going on at the start.
I can see how the Hansa is a nice target. Especially the province of Lubeck, with that CoT. They're in the HRE, though, and no doubt Bohemia would come to their defense, plus lots of little countries that they'll be allied with.

Snatch and grab - or wait until Bohemia (or whoever the current HRE happens to be) is in a war, or even better, at war with the Hansa!

But yeah, having thought about it - there's a lot more going on at the start than I first thought, so opening gambits like that aren't going to be so useful.

mraltair wrote:Denmark, eh?

Yeah, I think you should start a game as Denmark, too, mraltair.

Shagz wrote:

mraltair wrote:Denmark, eh?

Yeah, I think you should start a game as Denmark, too, mraltair.

I just started a recce game with Denmark to scope the landscape. Holy shit Denmark have some strong neighbours. Sweden and Norway to the north, the HRE directly south, Teutonic Knights east and Great Britain only a short sail away.

This should be a fun or short game.

mraltair wrote:

Shagz wrote:

mraltair wrote:Denmark, eh?

Yeah, I think you should start a game as Denmark, too, mraltair.

I just started a recce game with Denmark to scope the landscape. Holy shit Denmark have some strong neighbours. Sweden and Norway to the north, the HRE directly south, Teutonic Knights east and Great Britain only a short sail away.

This should be a fun or short game.

Both Norway and Sweden are in PU's, although Sweden wants out and will do if the player doesn't counter it.

The HRE is like a badger in a hole - don't stick your head in and it won't maul your face off.

While I don't want to give away my decided upon strategy Teutonic Knights are your bitch!

England - let's just say I'm not keen on their tasteless red cross on a white flag. It's a fashion crime. Something must be done!

Yeah, but Denmark starts with personal unions with Norway and Sweden.

So I've started my game as Denmark, and it's been pretty fun so far. I decided I was going to pursue a trade and colonization strategy, but will go to war if I see an opening, especially against the Hansa.

The first 20 or so years were pretty uneventful. I put most of my tech research into government to get to level 4 so I could get an idea. I took "patron of the arts" because I've never taken it before, and I can't take Quest for the New World until I reach trade tech 7. So I hired a good trade tech advisor and am investing a lot in trade tech; I estimate I'll get trade tech 7 in 1438, then I'll switch the idea to QftNW and begin exploration.

Some other intermediate things of interest are I managed to get the Duchy of Holstein, which starts as Denmark's vassal, to integrate, gaining their two provinces. Denmark is poor at this point; I managed to save up 360 ducats, but then got some bad luck when Holstein had 2 peasant revolts in quick succession, causing a 16,000 peasant strong army to appear. My army was much smaller, and I had to blow over 250 ducats on mercs to finally defeat that huge peasant army.

Also, Sweden, who I'm in a personal union with, keeps insulting me.

So around 1424, I see an opportunity for gain when the Hansa goes to war with Brandenburg and a couple of other countries. I raise some forces and declare war. The war of Denmark Aggression consisted of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Bremen, and Brunswick against The Hansa, Oldenburg, Luneburg, Gotland, Achaea, and Bohemia, who declared war because he's the HRE. The Hansa was also fighting a separate alliance of the Teutonic Knights, Brandenburg, Mecklenburg, and a couple other OPMs. So I move my army into Lubeck and begin sieging, Brunswick sieges Luneburg, Bremen sieges Hamburg, and Norway and Sweden send small armies to siege all over the place. My siege of Lubeck takes forever... 968 days until I finally got a breach and assaulted! Meanwhile, Brunswick takes Luneburg, and I vassalize them. The Hansa takes Mecklenburg and annexes them. After taking Lubeck, I decide to stop the war because The Hansa had a large army sitting next to mine, and the war exhaustion was beginning to pile up. In the end, Bremen got Hamburg, I forced The Hansa to release Mecklenburg, I got 100 ducats, and got Luneburg as a vassal. Not exactly the great result I hoped for, but it could have been worse.

So now it's 1428, and Denmark is poised to begin exploration in about 10 years.

Shagz wrote:Some other intermediate things of interest are I managed to get the Duchy of Holstein, which starts as Denmark's vassal, to integrate, gaining their two provinces. Denmark is poor at this point; I managed to save up 360 ducats, but then got some bad luck when Holstein had 2 peasant revolts in quick succession, causing a 16,000 peasant strong army to appear. My army was much smaller, and I had to blow over 250 ducats on mercs to finally defeat that huge peasant army.

What's Denmark's Serfdom/free citizens position like? Not worth just giving in to their demands? Mercs are so expensive

Ok, this may turn out to be a silly and/or boring thing to do but I'm doing it because I've never attempted it before. I'm not going to declare war. At all.

I've only played 5 years so there's nothing to tell yet but I've been making friends and selling off my relatives like a Frey. I've also decided to try and become a trading superpower rather than colonising the unknown world, again, because I've not done it before.

Also, for a bit of awesomeness another OPM AAR with Ashanti.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?406103-We-Come-In-Peace-An-Ashanti-AAR
Here's an image showing the spread of provinces. You don't need to be told which one is Ashanti.

Shagz wrote:Yeah, but Denmark starts with personal unions with Norway and Sweden.

So I've started my game as Denmark, and it's been pretty fun so far. I decided I was going to pursue a trade and colonization strategy, but will go to war if I see an opening, especially against the Hansa.

Aha! It seems like everyone has commenced!

I will make a start tonight while I'm taking a break between writing these bloody units up. Nearly done - 9/11 complete, deadline tomorrow (sigh).

Shagz wrote:The first 20 or so years were pretty uneventful.

Looking at Denmark's starting set up, I am not surprised. It's a pretty dim bulb at the beginning.

Shagz wrote: I put most of my tech research into government to get to level 4 so I could get an idea. I took "patron of the arts" because I've never taken it before, and I can't take Quest for the New World until I reach trade tech 7. So I hired a good trade tech advisor and am investing a lot in trade tech; I estimate I'll get trade tech 7 in 1438, then I'll switch the idea to QftNW and begin exploration.

So it's a colonising strategy then? I think I am going to work on Europe first.

Shagz wrote:Some other intermediate things of interest are I managed to get the Duchy of Holstein, which starts as Denmark's vassal, to integrate, gaining their two provinces.

I am definitely diplo-annexing those fellas as soon as I can.

Incidentally, isn't Holstein in the HRE? If you integrate, you don't get cores, right? So you have unlawful imperial territory too?

Shagz wrote:Denmark is poor at this point; I managed to save up 360 ducats, but then got some bad luck when Holstein had 2 peasant revolts in quick succession, causing a 16,000 peasant strong army to appear. My army was much smaller, and I had to blow over 250 ducats on mercs to finally defeat that huge peasant army.

Ouch! That's why the game's so exciting though - it never happens the same way twice!

Shagz wrote:Also, Sweden, who I'm in a personal union with, keeps insulting me.

Yeah, this is a major strategic consideration at the beginning of the game - how have you got this far without them insulting you beyond 0 relations... or has your King just not died yet?

Shagz wrote:So around 1424, I see an opportunity for gain when the Hansa goes to war with Brandenburg and a couple of other countries. I raise some forces and declare war. The war of Denmark Aggression consisted of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Bremen, and Brunswick against The Hansa, Oldenburg, Luneburg, Gotland, Achaea, and Bohemia, who declared war because he's the HRE. The Hansa was also fighting a separate alliance of the Teutonic Knights, Brandenburg, Mecklenburg, and a couple other OPMs. So I move my army into Lubeck and begin sieging, Brunswick sieges Luneburg, Bremen sieges Hamburg, and Norway and Sweden send small armies to siege all over the place. My siege of Lubeck takes forever... 968 days until I finally got a breach and assaulted! Meanwhile, Brunswick takes Luneburg, and I vassalize them. The Hansa takes Mecklenburg and annexes them. After taking Lubeck, I decide to stop the war because The Hansa had a large army sitting next to mine, and the war exhaustion was beginning to pile up. In the end, Bremen got Hamburg, I forced The Hansa to release Mecklenburg, I got 100 ducats, and got Luneburg as a vassal. Not exactly the great result I hoped for, but it could have been worse.

Yeah, not the best outcome, but a vassal's always nice.

Shagz wrote:So now it's 1428, and Denmark is poised to begin exploration in about 10 years.

Sweet! I can tell you - our game's are going to diverge from the first day!

Incidentally, I am going to do some pre-game nattering first. I like to think before playing, so I thought I'd share my thoughts with you. My updates will be fewer, but hopefully I can bring up some strategic elements of the game we can discuss.

Thommo wrote:

Shagz wrote:Some other intermediate things of interest are I managed to get the Duchy of Holstein, which starts as Denmark's vassal, to integrate, gaining their two provinces. Denmark is poor at this point; I managed to save up 360 ducats, but then got some bad luck when Holstein had 2 peasant revolts in quick succession, causing a 16,000 peasant strong army to appear. My army was much smaller, and I had to blow over 250 ducats on mercs to finally defeat that huge peasant army.

What's Denmark's Serfdom/free citizens position like? Not worth just giving in to their demands? Mercs are so expensive

The funny thing is (having just looked) - Denmark is already into the free subjects side. Normally, any nation I play I would be working towards Free Subjects.... but in this game, I am seriously thinking about moving towards serfdom in the early game to complete the national decisions, and to get cheap troops.