Imagination Theory wrote:I have mixed feelings on the wafer issue.


By the way, does anyone know if this thread http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=900
at rationalia is really closed? I've heard I lot of people say it was/is, but I can still see it and I'm not signed in.

Rationalia closes threads at 1,000 posts.

Exi5tentialist wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:Ah, sorry I'm not clear. They are right to be hurt and to call Pappa on it.

You mean - you'd actually let them talk about being hurt as well as feeling it? I don't know if I can cope with much more of this, it's just too radical.

Imagination Theory wrote:Personal responsibility? Like telling the joke on his thread on his site and then apologizing? Isn't that being responsible? Or do you mean he never should have said it?

Hmm... now let me see. Let's imagine the word "rape" enters a responsible person's consciousness. Do they think, "Hang on a sec..., I'd better exercise a bit of caution here" or do they just splurge it out on a public internet page in the form of the worst joke ever?

I don't know - what to do. I'm torn. Pappa is my role model. What would he do?

Intent obvious now.

Sciwoman wrote:That joke may not have been Pappa's best idea ever, but Myers had the opportunity to confront him about it on Rationalia - Myers was a member there also. Instead he decided to blog about it and send the Squid Squad over to castigate Pappa and the forum as a whole. That alone is enough to make me lose all respect for Myers.

Oh yes - it was such an irresponsible thing for Myers to do, expressing himself on his own blog. Goodness, anybody would think he wouldn't be treated fairly at Rationalia!

Rationalia isn't perfect, but at least they do not set upon somebody like an uncontrolled bunch of bully-boys in a school playground, making up their own gang rules and then immediately discarding them when they don't suit. No! Rationalia is a haven of free speech, and Pappa has no authoritarian role there at all: not over Rationalia members, not over people whom Pappa considers to be "trolls", not over Skepchicks nor people who might think like them, and least of over the likes of PZ Myers. And I am shocked to read that Myers has powers of control over a "Squid Squad". They sound dangerous. Who are they and how do I recognise them? I hope he doesn't send them over to my house.

No I don't blame you at all for losing all respect for PZ; he is clearly acting irrationally and has let his emotions get the better of him. Such a shame, considering he is a highly educated professor, and Pappa isn't.

Imagination Theory wrote:I have mixed feelings on the wafer issue.


By the way, does anyone know if this thread http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=900
at rationalia is really closed? I've heard I lot of people say it was/is, but I can still see it and I'm not signed in.

You have the link.
You posted the link.
Why didn't you look to see if it was locked or not?

Gallstones wrote:Intent obvious now.

Oh that's a relief! For a moment there I thought you were accusing me of insincerity.

Sciwoman wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

Exi5tentialist wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

Yes, I think his joke could be seen as a threat and it wasn't even funny and it did hurt people. I think someone said they got suicidal about it. But then again, it was on his site and it wasn't meant to be seen by them and he can do whatever the fuck he wants (inside of the law), and someone being offended, well, so what?

Yeah, who cares?

I mean, who cares if someone is offended? Should we go by the numbers? Most people don't approve of rape jokes or gay marriage, so we shouldn't tell them or have equality? Should every time we say something we do a poll first so as not to offend most people or 1/3 of them? I don't think being offended should play into it, is my point. Which I think was Pappa's point and I think he is right and it was on his on thread on his own site. I'm also saying everyone who was hurt by this is right too and it was a dick move and it is more of a threat (I don't think Pappa intended it that way, but it is) than a joke. Rape jokes don't just offended some people, they hurt some people. Like you said, there isn't a "you are either right or wrong", Pappa had the right to say what he did and everyone who was hurt by it has the right to that pain.

That joke may not have been Pappa's best idea ever, but Myers had the opportunity to confront him about it on Rationalia - Myers was a member there also. Instead he decided to blog about it and send the Squid Squad over to castigate Pappa and the forum as a whole. That alone is enough to make me lose all respect for Myers.

I'm not sure what PZ was trying to do...that was weird. Making money off of ads is my guess, or maybe he is just used to blogging about everything and only on his blog. Rape is a serious crime and so is being accused of being "rape cheerleaders" and "rape friendly". Has anyone tried asking him what his point in doing in that way was? The Skepchicks however make some good points on why we shouldn't make "targeted jokes", not because we can't, but because it is unnecessarily and does more than just offend, it hurts people.

Exi5tentialist wrote:
Oh my goodness - you doubt my sincerity?! Say it isn't so! Well you can say what you like about me, but Pappa's sincerity is beyond question. Pappa says that he absolutely supports freedom of speech. There can be no doubting his sincerity on that now, can there?

Go ask him. Freedom of speech has limits here. I think you are pushing yours.

Exi5tentialist wrote:

Gallstones wrote:Intent obvious now.

Oh that's a relief! For a moment there I thought you were accusing me of insincerity.

Fuckin'-A dude.
You have ouch written in every post.

Imagination Theory wrote:

Sciwoman wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

Exi5tentialist wrote:

Yeah, who cares?

I mean, who cares if someone is offended? Should we go by the numbers? Most people don't approve of rape jokes or gay marriage, so we shouldn't tell them or have equality? Should every time we say something we do a poll first so as not to offend most people or 1/3 of them? I don't think being offended should play into it, is my point. Which I think was Pappa's point and I think he is right and it was on his on thread on his own site. I'm also saying everyone who was hurt by this is right too and it was a dick move and it is more of a threat (I don't think Pappa intended it that way, but it is) than a joke. Rape jokes don't just offended some people, they hurt some people. Like you said, there isn't a "you are either right or wrong", Pappa had the right to say what he did and everyone who was hurt by it has the right to that pain.

That joke may not have been Pappa's best idea ever, but Myers had the opportunity to confront him about it on Rationalia - Myers was a member there also. Instead he decided to blog about it and send the Squid Squad over to castigate Pappa and the forum as a whole. That alone is enough to make me lose all respect for Myers.

I'm not sure what PZ was trying to do...that was weird. Making money off of ads is my guess, or maybe he is just used to blogging about everything and only on his blog. Rape is a serious crime and so is being accused of being "rape cheerleaders" and "rape friendly". Has anyone tried asking him what his point in doing in that way was? The Skepchicks however make some good points on why we shouldn't make "targeted jokes", not because we can't, but because it is unnecessarily and does more than just offend, it hurts people.

He called everyone on the forum cockroaches and then asked for his account to be closed.

Gallstones wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:I have mixed feelings on the wafer issue.


By the way, does anyone know if this thread http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=900
at rationalia is really closed? I've heard I lot of people say it was/is, but I can still see it and I'm not signed in.

You have the link.
You posted the link.
Why didn't you look to see if it was locked or not?

Oops. I mean on FTB and FB they said it is closed to public viewing, but I can still see it when not signed in. Now I have to like copy and paste for this other person who can't see it, but I was wondering in it is just their computer acting funny or if it is actually closed to the public?

Imagination Theory wrote:

Gallstones wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:I have mixed feelings on the wafer issue.


By the way, does anyone know if this thread http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=900
at rationalia is really closed? I've heard I lot of people say it was/is, but I can still see it and I'm not signed in.

You have the link.
You posted the link.
Why didn't you look to see if it was locked or not?

Oops. I mean on FTB and FB they said it is closed to public viewing, but I can still see it when not signed in. Now I have to like copy and paste for this other person who can't see it, but I was wondering in it is just their computer acting funny or if it is actually closed to the public?

It's still in the Wilder Web forum which is open to public viewing. The original thread is locked because we lock any thread that reaches 1000 posts and start a new one.

Sciwoman wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

Sciwoman wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

I mean, who cares if someone is offended? Should we go by the numbers? Most people don't approve of rape jokes or gay marriage, so we shouldn't tell them or have equality? Should every time we say something we do a poll first so as not to offend most people or 1/3 of them? I don't think being offended should play into it, is my point. Which I think was Pappa's point and I think he is right and it was on his on thread on his own site. I'm also saying everyone who was hurt by this is right too and it was a dick move and it is more of a threat (I don't think Pappa intended it that way, but it is) than a joke. Rape jokes don't just offended some people, they hurt some people. Like you said, there isn't a "you are either right or wrong", Pappa had the right to say what he did and everyone who was hurt by it has the right to that pain.

That joke may not have been Pappa's best idea ever, but Myers had the opportunity to confront him about it on Rationalia - Myers was a member there also. Instead he decided to blog about it and send the Squid Squad over to castigate Pappa and the forum as a whole. That alone is enough to make me lose all respect for Myers.

I'm not sure what PZ was trying to do...that was weird. Making money off of ads is my guess, or maybe he is just used to blogging about everything and only on his blog. Rape is a serious crime and so is being accused of being "rape cheerleaders" and "rape friendly". Has anyone tried asking him what his point in doing in that way was? The Skepchicks however make some good points on why we shouldn't make "targeted jokes", not because we can't, but because it is unnecessarily and does more than just offend, it hurts people.

He called everyone on the forum cockroaches and then asked for his account to be closed.

Fuck, what the fuck? I hadn't heard about that. We also probably shouldn't make targeted statements either and I guess he didn't actually read the thread in question.

Sciwoman wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

Gallstones wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:I have mixed feelings on the wafer issue.


By the way, does anyone know if this thread http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=900
at rationalia is really closed? I've heard I lot of people say it was/is, but I can still see it and I'm not signed in.

You have the link.
You posted the link.
Why didn't you look to see if it was locked or not?

Oops. I mean on FTB and FB they said it is closed to public viewing, but I can still see it when not signed in. Now I have to like copy and paste for this other person who can't see it, but I was wondering in it is just their computer acting funny or if it is actually closed to the public?

It's still in the Wilder Web forum which is open to public viewing. The original thread is locked because we lock any thread that reaches 1000 posts and start a new one.

Thanks, it must just being getting stuck in the old thread or something, a few people said they couldn't even sign in either. Maybe high traffic?

Imagination Theory wrote:Rape is a serious crime and so is being accused of being "rape cheerleaders" and "rape friendly". Has anyone tried asking him what his point in doing in that way was? The Skepchicks however make some good points on why we shouldn't make "targeted jokes", not because we can't, but because it is unnecessarily and does more than just offend, it hurts people.

Most posters in this topic have made these same points. Who are you arguing with?

!	GENERAL MODNOTE The wrong posters name removed from this quote. kiore.

Exi5tentialist wrote:

Sciwoman wrote:That joke may not have been Pappa's best idea ever, but Myers had the opportunity to confront him about it on Rationalia - Myers was a member there also. Instead he decided to blog about it and send the Squid Squad over to castigate Pappa and the forum as a whole. That alone is enough to make me lose all respect for Myers.

Oh yes - it was such an irresponsible thing for Myers to do, expressing himself on his own blog. Goodness, anybody would think he wouldn't be treated fairly at Rationalia!

Rationalia isn't perfect, but at least they do not set upon somebody like an uncontrolled bunch of bully-boys in a school playground, making up their own gang rules and then immediately discarding them when they don't suit. No! Rationalia is a haven of free speech, and Pappa has no authoritarian role there at all: not over Rationalia members, not over people whom Pappa considers to be "trolls", not over Skepchicks nor people who might think like them, and least of over the likes of PZ Myers. And I am shocked to read that Myers has powers of control over a "Squid Squad". They sound dangerous. Who are they and how do I recognise them? I hope he doesn't send them over to my house.

No I don't blame you at all for losing all respect for PZ; he is clearly acting irrationally and has let his emotions get the better of him. Such a shame, considering he is a highly educated professor, and Pappa isn't.

Well, if you are going to go that way, he is an associate professor.

Could be high traffic. It's a small forum and not set up for huge amounts of traffic.

Godless Infidel wrote:

Exi5tentialist wrote:
Oh my goodness - you doubt my sincerity?! Say it isn't so! Well you can say what you like about me, but Pappa's sincerity is beyond question. Pappa says that he absolutely supports freedom of speech. There can be no doubting his sincerity on that now, can there?

Go ask him. Freedom of speech has limits here. I think you are pushing yours.

Oh but I did ask him. He gave me an official warning at Rationalia - he wanted me to stop exercising my freedom of expression, you see. But I can't believe he was sincere in that! I'm probably in the advanced stages of Stockholm Syndrome here. But that doesn't concern me now. I'm working through that one in therapy.

No, what really concerns me is that - obviously disapproving of Pappa's detractors - you might actually might be trying to make me think I'm up against the very limits of my freedom of expression at Rational Skepticism. If you were trying that one on, it would be in line with some of the more blatent attempts to suppress another person's freedom that some people accuse Rationalia of exercising. I'm sure it's just coincidence the way the same behaviours keep coming out of the people whose views on the Pappa-Myers issue are similar. But I'm sure I've got this wrong - I will banish any such ungenerous thoughts from my consciousness now, and I'm sorry I even thought them!

Godless Infidel wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

Sciwoman wrote:Rape is a serious crime and so is being accused of being "rape cheerleaders" and "rape friendly". Has anyone tried asking him what his point in doing in that way was? The Skepchicks however make some good points on why we shouldn't make "targeted jokes", not because we can't, but because it is unnecessarily and does more than just offend, it hurts people.

Most posters in this topic have made these same points. Who are you arguing with?

Oh, I know and I'm not arguing with anyone.

Imagination Theory wrote:

Godless Infidel wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

Sciwoman wrote:Rape is a serious crime and so is being accused of being "rape cheerleaders" and "rape friendly". Has anyone tried asking him what his point in doing in that way was? The Skepchicks however make some good points on why we shouldn't make "targeted jokes", not because we can't, but because it is unnecessarily and does more than just offend, it hurts people.

Most posters in this topic have made these same points. Who are you arguing with?

Oh, I know and I'm not arguing with anyone.

Sorry posting too fast. didn't mean to address that a at you.

Imagination Theory wrote:

Godless Infidel wrote:

Imagination Theory wrote:

Sciwoman wrote:Rape is a serious crime and so is being accused of being "rape cheerleaders" and "rape friendly". Has anyone tried asking him what his point in doing in that way was? The Skepchicks however make some good points on why we shouldn't make "targeted jokes", not because we can't, but because it is unnecessarily and does more than just offend, it hurts people.

Most posters in this topic have made these same points. Who are you arguing with?

Oh, I know and I'm not arguing with anyone.

I thin we have a quote error here. I didn't post that.