Calilasseia wrote:
.....

Yet, on this vacuous basis, the pedlars of doctrines and magic entities have claimed for themselves, not only the purported "right" to be regarded as greater in stature than our most esteemed real achievers in dozens of other fields, but also the purported "right" to act with ruthlessness and brutality to serve the ends of their doctrines. On the basis of nothing more than the glittery holograms of their imaginations, they have claimed the purported "right" to enforce conformity to their doctrines, and wield vicious executive powers, up to and including mass homicide, to keep their doctrines alive.

Am I the only one here who has grown tired of retching over the steaming hypocrisy endemic to all of this?

To the pedlars of doctrines and magic entities, all of whom have repeatedly demonstrated themselves to be equally worthless, venal, corrupt, self-serving, hubristic, noxiously hypocritical and suppuratingly dishonest, I say, begone, the lot of you. The world will be better off without your snake oil.

I agree completely!



The danger of completely eliminating it though is that there is a real possibility of falling into the 'worship' of science and logic. As long as the snake oil remains and is recognized as such it provides a pole of ignorance from which to judge wisdom, science and reality.

Science does not religion in order to justify itself for it can stand or fall by its own merits. Since critical thinking is entirely compatible with the scientific method there should be no danger of it being worshipped like religion. One does not worship science anyway less one thinks it can answer all questions and if one does then that is a million miles from what it does do

surreptitious57 wrote:Science does not religion in order to justify itself for it can stand or fall by its own merits. Since critical thinking is entirely compatible with the scientific method there should be no danger of it being worshipped like religion. One does not worship science anyway less one thinks it can answer all questions and if one does then that is a million miles from what it does do

No, there is a real danger of accepting/following without questioning, particularly the more complex sciences which is where we find ourselves as we learn more and more about the universe.

kennyc wrote:The danger of completely eliminating it though is that there is a real possibility of falling into the 'worship' of science and logic. As long as the snake oil remains and is recognized as such it provides a pole of ignorance from which to judge wisdom, science and reality.

It will never disappear completely. There will always be enough around to use as a reference point.

carl wrote:

Alan B wrote:Is carl still around?

Its Christmas time and therefore, time to spend with family, to go on vacation to see God's wonderful - and very very hi-tech creation. This is a very very interesting planet as you know - in a few days we plan on spending a week seeing snow-covered mountains, a zoo full of interesting animals created in all different shapes and sizes, maybe a cave with stalactites, and some low-tech human-engineered stuff like shops, various buildings, etc..

Who ever said God is boring.....I expect the new earth and new heaven to be much more interesting to explore though...can't wait for more...but much better!

Merry Christmas everyone! And remember, whenever we look at the date, we are using His Birthday as a reference point!

Just why is it that supposed adherents to this religion thingy don't seem to be in possession of even the basic facts according to their own fucking holy books?

Fallible wrote:

carl wrote:

Alan B wrote:Is carl still around?

Its Christmas time and therefore, time to spend with family, to go on vacation to see God's wonderful - and very very hi-tech creation. This is a very very interesting planet as you know - in a few days we plan on spending a week seeing snow-covered mountains, a zoo full of interesting animals created in all different shapes and sizes, maybe a cave with stalactites, and some low-tech human-engineered stuff like shops, various buildings, etc..

Who ever said God is boring.....I expect the new earth and new heaven to be much more interesting to explore though...can't wait for more...but much better!

Merry Christmas everyone! And remember, whenever we look at the date, we are using His Birthday as a reference point!

Just why is it that supposed adherents to this religion thingy don't seem to be in possession of even the basic facts according to their own fucking holy books?

Because their preachers tell them everything they need to know. There is no need to do their own thinking or their own research. Besides, thinking for yourself might lead to questions and questions are BAD.

Oops! Double post.

Calilasseia wrote: Am I the only one here who has grown tired of retching over the steaming hypocrisy endemic to all of this?

NO!

carl wrote:Who ever said God is boring.....I expect the new earth and new heaven to be much more interesting to explore though...can't wait for more...but much better!

Without Hope for an Afterlife, What Are You Living For?

Leave these mortal coils and get on with your super new life. Let me know if I can help in any way.

Meanwhile, I'll get on with my present life; the only life I can be certain of.

Ironically it was a devout religious person who I know who told me at work not to wish my life away when I said I couldn't wait for the weekend. Her view was just that you should make the most of every moment regardless of whether or not you believe.

That is so true. The older you are, the faster time seems to go. The only time we really have is the present moment.
It isn't always easy to concentrate on the present especially when you have great plans or fears for the future or memories of deceased loved ones which can direct your thoughts to the past.
In the dark and stormy months of winter, it is all too easy to slip into the jaws of depression.
Actually, I'm not sure if we CAN always live in the present. It is probably not in sinc with the way our
brains function.

carl wrote:

Nebogipfel wrote:

carl wrote:Have you ever hurt anyone else? Aren't you glad God didn't make an edict wiping out all who hurt others? I am. He is much more merciful IMHO than someone who wants hurtful people wiped out.

Tell that to the Amalekites. Who (supposedly) were wiped out by divine edict.

ok, but have you ever hurt anyone else?

Sure. On numerous occaisions. Some of which still make me cringe when I think of them.

Merry Christmas, (well Boxing Day at least) carl!

On this topic. Yesterday, around the lunch table with some friends, their family, and friends, this topic came up. I said that when my sister was dying of cancer, we had several chats about the idea of an afterlife, and she, being aware of her impending death, said that when she died, if there was anything beyond the last breath, anything at all, she would let me know about it. She mentioned specific items of furniture and ornaments in my house, that she would move or us to communicate with me. She also said that if it was possible to "speak" to me (as in God speaks to people), she would do so. Almost 15 years since she died, nothing, nada, not a single peep, or moved ornament, or whisper in my ear.

This provoked one of the women at the table to say that she believed that she was "going to a better place" and that she would meet blah blah blah... So I asked her "why?" Why would she imagine that there's anything better than this place, this earth, this universe, and even if there was, why did she believe that she was going there? What is your evidence?

She couldn't answer of course. Apart from babbling about how she feels it "in her heart" how she believes this isn't all there is, the usual garbage they spout about the afterlife. When I asked about why of all the animals, she said that she believed she was created as a higher order of animal, but that she would meet not only her dead relatives, but also her animals, because they, apparently also go there. I sort of got a bit snarky about the place being a little overcrowded, but then the men changed the subject and poured more champagne. She did end with "I'll see you there." To which I responded, "no you won't, I'm going nowhere."

The point of telling this is what struck me about the people who were nodding their heads in agreement with her, is that they are all reasonably wealthy retired people, who live in places far bigger than their needs, and when questioned about why they want the luxuries say that they can't give up the 16-seater dining table, or the second car, or the whatever the other luxury possessions are. This came up when another person said that she was looking to buy a property here, and I suggested that she look at the ones around us: single bedroom places but really more than a single person needs to live in. She said she couldn't possibly live in a small house. (Hmmm. Thinking about all the billions who've died and gone to heaven, I shouldn't imagine there's much space for 16-seater dining tables there.)

This strikes me as odd. I'd imagine that people who want to live their lives to the fullest, it being the only one they have, and the only chance to experience everything, would be the sort of people who strive to own the best the world has to offer, but this isn't the case. Most of the people I know, who don't do the whole pious "I'm going to Jesus" thing, don't live in the lap of luxury. Oh I'm sure there are fabulously wealthy atheists who own everything it's possible to own, but my personal experience of them is that they give away more than they spend on themselves. It's the people who claim to want to live in "mansions in heaven" who also accumulate as much wealth here, as they possibly can, and who also do the whole "they're just lazy, don't want to work" nonsense.

carl wrote:
Its Christmas time and therefore, time to spend with family, to go on vacation to see God's wonderful - and very very hi-tech creation. This is a very very interesting planet as you know - in a few days we plan on spending a week seeing snow-covered mountains, a zoo full of interesting animals created in all different shapes and sizes, maybe a cave with stalactites, and some low-tech human-engineered stuff like shops, various buildings, etc..

Actually carl, my Christmas wish for you is that you will discover something about how old the Earth really is, and how people know that, and how the vast array of living species really came to be (and how people know that).

That, and that you would give some thought to how a god of love and compassion came to order the extermination of the Amalekites.

Merry Christmas everyone! And remember, whenever we look at the date, we are using His Birthday as a reference point!

Providing you remember to add between four and six years to the date, and remember that his birthday was not in December.

Unfortunately I alighted upon the idea a day late, but in response to this:

Merry Christmas everyone! And remember, whenever we look at the date, we are using His Birthday as a reference point!

the obvious response should have been "Merry 13.0.2.0.14 10 Ix 7 K'ank'in".

Shrunk wrote:[...if they were in a situation where they were in a burning building and they had time to only save 1) a human infant or 2) A box containing 100 frozen human embryos, which would they choose?

The embryos, of course. Save the baby and eat for a day, but raise the embryos...

I told my DH about posting about my eye rolling at the dinner table. He said that when I asked "why," our host, who was on the other side of the room said "for the 72 virgins of course." I thought that was funny.