The New And Coming Plague

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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3941  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 24, 2021 1:23 pm

hackenslash wrote:Yup.

And in the UK,too.



Nowhere's safe from the crazy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58655702

German elections 2021: The conspiracy theories targeting voters

Ahead of federal elections this weekend, conspiracy theories have been spreading online, including claims the poll will be invalid because the German state is illegitimate.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3942  Postby ronmcd » Sep 24, 2021 4:36 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
Nowhere's safe from the crazy.


Anti-vaxxers are galvanising across the country to protest outside schools. Regional Telegram channels are being set up for each city with concerned parents encouraged to demonstrate and share misinfo leaflets

https://twitter.com/RuchoSharma/status/ ... 5334493188

Anti-vaxxers target UK schools with protests against Covid vaccine roll-out for 12 to 15-year-olds

Batshit nutjobs. They seem to be everywhere. And we don't have the excuse of having just had a batshit president in office.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3943  Postby BlackBart » Sep 24, 2021 5:06 pm

No, we're lucky not to have a dangerous halfwit with ridiculous hair in charge....
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3944  Postby hackenslash » Sep 25, 2021 8:19 am

The man who was released from a Co Donegal hospital by anti-vaccination campaigners against medical advice has died in hospital.

Joe McCarron, aged 75, passed away at Letterkenny University Hospital earlier today after a brave fight against Covid-19.

Mr McCarron, who was from Dungloe, had been in hospital for a number of days after contracting the virus.

His case received national and international attention when anti-vaccine protestors encouraged him to sign himself out of the hospital on Tuesday week last.

The Taoiseach Micheál Martin had slammed the removal of Mr McCarron from hospital saying: “If you get it (Covid-19), you should treat it as very serious.

“Certainly, it is outrageous that anyone would, in an ill-informed way, be advising people to leave hospital. It endangers that person’s health.”


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3945  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 25, 2021 11:35 am

Any idea how the protestors got to him in order to convince him?
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3946  Postby hackenslash » Sep 25, 2021 12:17 pm

I didn't look any deeper, I simply assumed Facebook/other.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3947  Postby The_Piper » Sep 25, 2021 1:12 pm

One of them was in the hospital telling him they're killing him in there and to check himself out, while the doctor was also there saying he will probably die. The anti-vaxxer then replied "he'll die at home then". The patient looked quite confused. The anti-vaxxer was very adamant and animated convincing him to leave. If that was my father or someone I cared about, I might be banging on (or banging in) that guy's door right about now. Despicable.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3948  Postby ronmcd » Sep 26, 2021 4:45 pm

The_Piper wrote:One of them was in the hospital telling him they're killing him in there and to check himself out, while the doctor was also there saying he will probably die. The anti-vaxxer then replied "he'll die at home then". The patient looked quite confused. The anti-vaxxer was very adamant and animated convincing him to leave. If that was my father or someone I cared about, I might be banging on (or banging in) that guy's door right about now. Despicable.

Apparently a known anti-vax and "sovereign citizen" type in Ireland:

Here's the tragic video of Mr McCarron being removed from the intensive care unit at Letterkenny University Hospital a fortnight ago by Antonio Mureddu, an Italian anti-vax and sovereign citizen activist with links to the far-right.

Antonio Mureddu is a "Freeman on the Land" activist. Advocates falsely believe they’re not bound by any laws they have not consented to. He's previously oragnised rallies in support of the Italian right-wing party Lega Nord.

https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1442073750581784577
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3949  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Sep 26, 2021 5:00 pm

Antonio Mureddu is a "Freeman on the Land" activist. Advocates falsely believe they’re not bound by any laws they have not consented to.

that‘s basically the base premise of crime syndicates, only those go about it a bit smarter and with more success.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3950  Postby Alan C » Sep 26, 2021 8:13 pm

The_Piper wrote:One of them was in the hospital telling him they're killing him in there and to check himself out, while the doctor was also there saying he will probably die. The anti-vaxxer then replied "he'll die at home then". The patient looked quite confused. The anti-vaxxer was very adamant and animated convincing him to leave. If that was my father or someone I cared about, I might be banging on (or banging in) that guy's door right about now. Despicable.


Followed by banging in his fucking head.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3951  Postby hackenslash » Sep 26, 2021 11:53 pm

Here's a heartwarming tale of a survivor.

A 25-year-old who had to get a double lung transplant due to COVID-19 said his lungs look like 'chewed up pieces of bubblegum'


https://news.yahoo.com/25-old-had-double-lung-122554850.html

Massive irony, he's now at the mercy of the antivaxxers he aided. He's going to spend a long time on immunosuppressants to combat rejection, and will probably spend the rest of his life immunocompromised to at least some degree, and definitely susceptible to every little thing.

Still, at least he avoided the unknown long-term effects of the vaccine, eh?

Crackpot pseudoscience used to be fun and engaging to debunk. Now, it's more like a slaughterhouse. Absolutely stuck in their matrix of scientifically-illiterate bullshit, and taking others down with them.

I can't muster patience any more.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3952  Postby The_Piper » Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm

Thank goodness he survived that, but still it's incredibly sad. He's in Georgia, with a lot of antivax germ hoarders. I hope the docs warned him about breakthrough infections. A hospital up here, in the process of encouraging vaccinations, said that 80% of the people in beds were unvaccinated. That's a good reason to get the vaccine, but that's not reassuring to me! A lot of people around here don't seem to understand that they can still get sick enough to be admitted into a hospital even if they're vaccinated. I assume this because of the near universal lack of masks and social distancing among local gray-haired people.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3953  Postby The_Piper » Sep 27, 2021 1:19 pm

ronmcd wrote:
The_Piper wrote:One of them was in the hospital telling him they're killing him in there and to check himself out, while the doctor was also there saying he will probably die. The anti-vaxxer then replied "he'll die at home then". The patient looked quite confused. The anti-vaxxer was very adamant and animated convincing him to leave. If that was my father or someone I cared about, I might be banging on (or banging in) that guy's door right about now. Despicable.

Apparently a known anti-vax and "sovereign citizen" type in Ireland:

Here's the tragic video of Mr McCarron being removed from the intensive care unit at Letterkenny University Hospital a fortnight ago by Antonio Mureddu, an Italian anti-vax and sovereign citizen activist with links to the far-right.

Antonio Mureddu is a "Freeman on the Land" activist. Advocates falsely believe they’re not bound by any laws they have not consented to. He's previously oragnised rallies in support of the Italian right-wing party Lega Nord.

https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1442073750581784577
Cool, I couldn't remember where I saw the video. Hopefully there will be some legal consequences for him. I'm sure there are social consequences.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3954  Postby hackenslash » Sep 27, 2021 2:36 pm

A wonderful piece by one of my long-time favourite science bloggers, OB/GYN Jen Gunter, about vaccines and fertility.

Despite the fact that fertility experts recommend vaccination against COVID-19 and there are several studies showing no concern for fertility, many people still harbor fears. After all, how can we in medicine be so sure that a vaccine that has been available for less than two years won’t cause a problem 10 years down the road? Wouldn’t we need a 10 year study to prove that?

The answer is no, we don’t need a 10 year study. And I am going to explain why.


https://vajenda.substack.com/p/how-can-we-be-sure-vaccination-against?r=fbh1f
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3955  Postby Seabass » Sep 27, 2021 10:23 pm

The Fight Over Masks in Schools - Jordan Klepper Fingers the Pulse | The Daily Show
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3956  Postby Seabass » Sep 28, 2021 12:51 am

Oh for the love of all creatures big and small. :picard:

:ill: Thousands of people voted for this woman and they will vote for her again. :ill:

https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/status/1442487744069083136

Image
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3957  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 28, 2021 1:26 am

She needs risperidone, not Tylenol.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3958  Postby hackenslash » Sep 28, 2021 10:52 am

Another one, Wilmington, NC.

Many of the unvaccinated hope the odds are in their favor, and if they do catch COVID-19, they won’t get that sick. That was the case with Tyler Gilreath, a 20-year-old UNCW student who is now brain dead due to complications he suffered after contracting the virus in mid-August. His family plans to take him off life support Monday evening after doctors harvest his organs.


https://www.wbtv.com/2021/09/27/devastating-shock-uncw-student-brain-dead-due-covid-19-complications-mother-pleads-young-people-get-vaccinated/

He was about to start studying computer science (mentioned in the video, but not the piece). We all know quite a few computer scientists, and it's not a trivial topic in terms of brain-power (I'm sure it's more variable than my experience would suggest, just to avoid charges of naïveté, but it can't be that broad, at least in terms of qualifying grades). Computer scientists have always been at the forefront of my forum-borne education, whether the topic be maths, logic or physics, so it should be a warning to us all.

Even really smart people can fall down dumb rabbit-holes and be sucked in. I've found myself gravitationally-bound to one or two in the course of researching how we think about particular things, and it's a lot easier than you might think to have your thinking coloured in some way. Indeed, the entire basis of cognitive behavioural therapy is to colour your thinking positively as a strategy for avoiding the dark places.

I really hope at least one person takes note, here. I get that it's easy not to trust the government. I wouldn't trust even a good government as far as I could throw it, and certainly not this government, with it's open and rampant racism, misogyny and especially transphobia.

Surely, though, nobody could think any member here, many of whom genuinely understand the science in some considerable detail (I know far more about virology, epidemiology, vaccinology and immunology than I ever wanted to or thought I'd have a use for at this point, even as somebody who's engaged with antivaxxers for a decade and more) as he well knows, would actually wish him harm?

Seriously, dude. Wind your neck in. I want you to have a long life, and a long tenure on the forum. You know I have genuine affection for you, no matter how infuriatingly obtuse you can be, and no matter how robustly I may have expressed my frustration at times.

Every single piece of information required to understand how all this works is right here on this forum. I could list the posts with all the bits of logic you need to grasp all of this, were I to sit down and think carefully about who wrote what. And I mean posts outlining things I'm confident you'd agree with the logic of.

Nobody is trying to harm you, and I promise it's as safe as putting foreign objects in your body can ever be, and many, many orders of magnitude safer than putting some foreign objects in your body unprotected.

Viruses do some funny things, not least because of how they interact. RNA viruses are quite unstable, and especially viruses with shorter genomes, because shorter genomes are fairly strongly correlated with faster rates of evolution. Influenza A evolves at such a rate that the accumulation of differences outruns our vaccines within about two years, but remember that the time component of that is really not a time component, it's generational. Remember the 'serial trials' fallacy, so beautifully exposed by Calilasseia over on RDF and one of the first migrated posts here when this place opened? This is that. The evolution rate of Flu A is governed by how tightly we control outbreaks. Because this virus is currently and to a first approximation everywhere, the whole world is currently tossing coins, and ten heads in a row is coming up time after time after time after...

Honestly, dude. It's a bit of fat and some RNA. It isn't putting anything in your body that isn't in a conventional vaccine, and it's putting in considerably less. It trains your cells to make a specific protein so that your immune system knows what it looks like. The same protein is present in the virus, and also in the attenuated viruses that go into conventional vaccines. In real technological terms, it's properly barn-door in its simplicity, and it is OF NECESSITY safer than conventional viruses.

FYI, because it's so simple, it's really quick to develop and produces new vaccines, because it's a matter of identifying the genes responsible for the production of the business end of any given virus. I saw a piece yesterday that a new flu vaccine is entering trials.

Also worth noting that yesterday, a new cancer treatment drug, Sotorasib, hailed as a gamechanger in oncology, was licensed following phase 3 trials. The phase 3 trial involved 126 patients.

The phase 3 trial for the Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine involved 43,548 patients.

Just get the jab, mate. I'd hate to lose you over silliness.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3959  Postby The_Metatron » Sep 28, 2021 2:49 pm

The_Piper wrote:Thank goodness he survived that, but still it's incredibly sad. He's in Georgia, with a lot of antivax germ hoarders. I hope the docs warned him about breakthrough infections. A hospital up here, in the process of encouraging vaccinations, said that 80% of the people in beds were unvaccinated. That's a good reason to get the vaccine, but that's not reassuring to me! A lot of people around here don't seem to understand that they can still get sick enough to be admitted into a hospital even if they're vaccinated. I assume this because of the near universal lack of masks and social distancing among local gray-haired people.

No, I don't think it's good he survived.

Somewhere, there's a coal miner with black lung who will die because this clown electively used up those donated lungs.

The antivaxxer chose this. He should have died.
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Re: The New And Coming Plague

#3960  Postby hackenslash » Sep 28, 2021 3:03 pm

I honestly can't disagree. I know - because I watched House - that the scores they award patients are heavily weighted toward how much extra life they can give, but being a medically irresponsible moron should be a big negative score, not least because of the aforementioned contingency of that longevity on being aware of an properly accounting for the risks.

I hope he earns them, by at least looking after them and learning from this experience.

One of the lines that leapt out at me in that was that he intended to get the vaccine, but was waiting until long-term safety data were in. He actually mentioned ten years.
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