Mathematical Absolutes in Scripture

GrahamH · **#21** by **GrahamH** » Mar 30, 2016 4:10 pm

Maybe we should take Mr Downie seriously. That name shows up eight times in the Bible Code, including in Genesis 1!

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/code/downie/1

"will" scores 4784 matches. Not just any number, exactly 4784!

Not only that, but match 4784, the final answer, is in, wait for it, Revelations! (The Revelation to Saint John 22:17 )

Checkmate atheists"!

:lol:

Cito di Pense · **#22** by **Cito di Pense** » Mar 30, 2016 4:11 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:As you yourself admit, pi was already discovered at the time.

Animavore · **#23** by **Animavore** » Mar 30, 2016 4:13 pm

Even the evidence against Steven Avery wasn't this bad.

GrahamH · **#24** by **GrahamH** » Mar 30, 2016 4:16 pm

The really amazing thing is that "pie" has 31878 matches in the Bible Code!
http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/code/pie

blue triangle · **#25** by **blue triangle** » Mar 30, 2016 4:31 pm

None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred. Remember, this is evidence (I contend) for the interaction of a non-physical mind with physical matter. It's either coincidence or intelligent design. If you say its coincidence you are arguing with the low probabilities. When they're that low, and the phenomenon so meaningful, it's more reasonable to accept some kind of teleological process is occurring.

We have

1) The two most important transcendental numbers in mathematics
2) Two of the most important verses in scripture, both first verses of books, one the first verse in the Bible,
3) A combined error of around 1 in a million
4) Two significant triangular numbers.
5) The implied name of God in the larger of the two.
6) The Star of David implied in both (both self intersect, which only 1 in 3 such triangles does).

Internal structure is also reflected in the verses, and especially within Genesis 1.1.

Cito di Pense · **#26** by **Cito di Pense** » Mar 30, 2016 4:40 pm

blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

It's not a phenomenon.

Thommo · **#27** by **Thommo** » Mar 30, 2016 4:41 pm

Why should we spend more effort explaining it than you have? You haven't actually shown an improbability. You've copied and pasted someone else's waffling around that point, which they did not establish. If you want to talk about a probability, talk mathematically about the sampling method and sample space by all means. But if you don't present mathematics, don't be surprised if the answer you get is little more than "that's not mathematics".

There are some impressive sounding qualifiers here, but there's not actually anything to explain. I've already pointed you at the generalities and you just hand waved them away. Why should anyone answer hand waving with mathematics?

Sendraks · **#28** by **Sendraks** » Mar 30, 2016 4:43 pm

blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

Then you're not paying attention. it has been explained and debunked.

blue triangle wrote:Remember, this is evidence (I contend) for the interaction of a non-physical mind with physical matter.

It isn't.

blue triangle wrote:It's either coincidence or intelligent design. If you say its coincidence you are arguing with the low probabilities. When they're that low, and the phenomenon so meaningful, it's more reasonable to accept some kind of teleological process is occurring.

We have

1) The two most important transcendental numbers in mathematics
2) Two of the most important verses in scripture, both first verses of books, one the first verse in the Bible,
3) A combined error of around 1 in a million
4) Two significant triangular numbers.
5) The implied name of God in the larger of the two.
6) The Star of David implied in both (both self intersect, which only 1 in 3 such triangles does).

Internal structure is also reflected in the verses, and especially within Genesis 1.1.

The problem here is that you're working backwards from the conclusions that the scriptures are "important" to anyone outside of those who wish to find them important. To anyone else, they are no more "important" than any other text to which importance could be ascribed and to which similar numerological "wonders" can be applied. It isn't a "meaningful phenomenon" in any sense of the word, once you apply it to any other text. Unless, you know, you apply a status of "meaningful" to said text.

blue triangle · **#29** by **blue triangle** » Mar 30, 2016 4:44 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

It's not a phenomenon.

Why? Time methinks for you to put your money where your mouth is and not give me a blind assertion. I've shown my evidence. Now I invite you to show me how it is more likely coincidence than a real phenomenon.

Shrunk · **#30** by **Shrunk** » Mar 30, 2016 4:46 pm

blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

Is it also a "phenomenon" that the government report on 9/11 described the demise of Vanilla Ice's career? The very same Vanilla Ice whose song predicted the 9/11 attack? What are the odds?

Shrunk · **#31** by **Shrunk** » Mar 30, 2016 4:47 pm

blue triangle wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

It's not a phenomenon.
Why? Time methinks for you to put your money where your mouth is and not give me a blind assertion. I've shown my evidence. Now I invite you to show me how it is more likely coincidence than a real phenomenon.

Holy fuck. Learn how to think, there's a good boy.

blue triangle · **#32** by **blue triangle** » Mar 30, 2016 4:58 pm

Sendraks wrote:
blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

Then you're not paying attention. it has been explained and debunked.

blue triangle wrote:Remember, this is evidence (I contend) for the interaction of a non-physical mind with physical matter.

It isn't.

blue triangle wrote:It's either coincidence or intelligent design. If you say its coincidence you are arguing with the low probabilities. When they're that low, and the phenomenon so meaningful, it's more reasonable to accept some kind of teleological process is occurring.

We have

1) The two most important transcendental numbers in mathematics
2) Two of the most important verses in scripture, both first verses of books, one the first verse in the Bible,
3) A combined error of around 1 in a million
4) Two significant triangular numbers.
5) The implied name of God in the larger of the two.
6) The Star of David implied in both (both self intersect, which only 1 in 3 such triangles does).

Internal structure is also reflected in the verses, and especially within Genesis 1.1.

The problem here is that you're working backwards from the conclusions that the scriptures are "important" to anyone outside of those who wish to find them important. To anyone else, they are no more "important" than any other text to which importance could be ascribed and to which similar numerological "wonders" can be applied. It isn't a "meaningful phenomenon" in any sense of the word, once you apply it to any other text. Unless, you know, you apply a status of "meaningful" to said text.

If your thought processes exclude meaning then you may well have a difficult time seeing why it's so significant. Meaning is central to this phenomenon, I'll grant you that.

If your partner dies and one day soon after you hear their voice speaking to you as you doze off to sleep, you may ascribe meaning to that event or you may dismiss it as wishful thinking. Neither tell you whether their spirit has actually communicated with you though. So why is this phenomenon important? It's because of the low probability of it happening right at the beginning of the Bible and other significant locations.The first few words of any book are significant in their very primacy. Even if you do not believe in God, you know the Bible is very important at least historically. Even if you can't count to save yourself, you know pi is important. This confluence is what makes it a phenomenon

Cito di Pense · **#33** by **Cito di Pense** » Mar 30, 2016 5:00 pm

blue triangle wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

It's not a phenomenon.
Why? Time methinks for you to put your money where your mouth is and not give me a blind assertion. I've shown my evidence. Now I invite you to show me how it is more likely coincidence than a real phenomenon.

How is it a phenomenon?

blue triangle wrote:The first is the Masoretic text, written in biblical Hebrew, the second is the Textus receptus, written in Koine Greek.

You (or your authority) chose the text. Which papyrus do you choose? transcription is a notoriously error-prone process! You'd better hope the transcription errors are not up there in the significant digits. There are other scriptures; you know how that works. That's why it isn't a phenomenon. It's numerology. This is a lot of fuckwittery with whiskers. You're going to decompensate if you ever come to terms with the gullibility implicit in your message. If you're that gullible, too bad for you. If you're insincere, that's another problem of yours and not mine, and you can just take your sick joke elsewhere.

blue triangle wrote:Even if you can't count to save yourself, you know pi is important.

Approximations are conveniences, BT. Of all the texts in the world, you chose those, but a random sequence of ten decimal digits (given all the ways of generating it) is fairly easy to come by. Why decimal digits? Because it's convenient? Choices, choices! My goodness. I'm not angry because your message ruffles my atheism, but because it treats me as if I were an idiot.

blue triangle · **#34** by **blue triangle** » Mar 30, 2016 5:08 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
blue triangle wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

It's not a phenomenon.
Why? Time methinks for you to put your money where your mouth is and not give me a blind assertion. I've shown my evidence. Now I invite you to show me how it is more likely coincidence than a real phenomenon.

How is it a phenomenon?

Is that your answer, essentially a repetition?

blue triangle wrote:The first is the Masoretic text, written in biblical Hebrew, the second is the Textus receptus, written in Koine Greek.

You (or your authority) chose the text. Which papyrus do you choose?

It's the standard version of the Hebrew Bible, the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, which uses the Masoretic text. I've seen a copy of that text that was 1000 years old and the letter sequence is exactly the same.

transcription is a notoriously error-prone process! There are other scriptures; you know how that works.

The Masoretic text is the standard version. And those old Hebrew scribes maintained strict procedures to ensure perfect copying. Very few errors got through.

Cito di Pense · **#35** by **Cito di Pense** » Mar 30, 2016 5:09 pm

blue triangle wrote:It's the standard version of the Hebrew Bible, the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia.

So you fucking say. Who made it the 'standard version'? You did! You don't fucking know who made it the standard version.

blue triangle wrote:The Masoretic text is the standard version.

So you fucking say. Would you care to present your seminary credentials, because they're worth fucking crap to me. You have a lot to fucking learn about fucking bibliolatry.

blue triangle wrote:And those old Hebrew scribes maintained strict procedures to ensure perfect copying. Very few errors got through.

So you fucking say, with the hollow voice of assumed authority.

blue triangle wrote:The first few words of any book are significant in their very primacy.

So you fucking say. This is starting to be a habit with you.

blue triangle · **#36** by **blue triangle** » Mar 30, 2016 5:14 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
blue triangle wrote:
blue triangle wrote:Even if you can't count to save yourself, you know pi is important.

Approximations are conveniences, BT. Of all the texts in the world, you chose those, but a random sequence of ten decimal digits (given all the ways of generating it) is fairly easy to come by. Why decimal digits? Because it's convenient? Choices, choices! My goodness. I'm not angry because your message ruffles my atheism, but because it treats me as if I were an idiot.

I'm sorry you're angry, but I'm showing you all this as evidence of the presence, the universal presence (just as Christians say) of a non-physical mind, one that can operate across time and space to achieve miracles (and this is surely a standing miracle, as Mr. Jenkins asserts) and one that has all knowledge. In other words, this non-physical mind appears to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. :grin:

Shrunk · **#37** by **Shrunk** » Mar 30, 2016 5:14 pm

blue triangle wrote:If your thought processes exclude meaning then you may well have a difficult time seeing why it's so significant. Meaning is central to this phenomenon, I'll grant you that.

If your partner dies and one day soon after you hear their voice speaking to you as you doze off to sleep, you may ascribe meaning to that event or you may dismiss it as wishful thinking. Neither tell you whether their spirit has actually communicated with you though. So why is this phenomenon important? It's because of the low probability of it happening right at the beginning of the Bible and other significant locations.The first few words of any book are significant in their very primacy. Even if you do not believe in God, you know the Bible is very important at least historically. Even if you can't count to save yourself, you know pi is important. This confluence is what makes it a phenomenon

So are you denying that the September 11 terrorist attacks were a significant event? And did you know that "Ice Ice Baby" was never meant to be a single? It was only released as a B side, and it just happened that a radio DJ happened to play it. The rest is history. I find it very suspicious, not to say dishonest, that you refuse to even address this phenomenon, while you demand that others provide explanations for yours. Par for the course with you, though.

Cito di Pense · **#38** by **Cito di Pense** » Mar 30, 2016 5:16 pm

blue triangle wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
blue triangle wrote:
blue triangle wrote:Even if you can't count to save yourself, you know pi is important.

Approximations are conveniences, BT. Of all the texts in the world, you chose those, but a random sequence of ten decimal digits (given all the ways of generating it) is fairly easy to come by. Why decimal digits? Because it's convenient? Choices, choices! My goodness. I'm not angry because your message ruffles my atheism, but because it treats me as if I were an idiot.
I'm sorry you're angry, but I'm showing you all this as evidence of the presence, the universal presence (just as Christians say) of a non-physical mind, one that can operate across time and space to achieve miracles (and this is surely a standing miracle, as Mr. Jenkins asserts) and one that has all knowledge. In other words, this non-physical mind appears to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.

Bend a spoon. Perhaps you and Mr Jenkins will be happily spooning, together, soon.

Thomas Eshuis · **#39** by **Thomas Eshuis** » Mar 30, 2016 5:17 pm

blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

You're once again trying to shift the burden of proof blue triangle.
Also, as Cito pointed out, you haven't even established that this is a phenomenon.

blue triangle wrote:Remember, this is evidence (I contend)

Remember what you contend and what you demonstrate are two different things.
We're interested in the latter, not the former.

blue triangle wrote: It's either coincidence or intelligent design.

And since you're claiming it's designed, it's up to you to demonstrate that.

blue triangle wrote: If you say its coincidence you are arguing with the low probabilities.

Irrelevant. As long as it's possible, it doesn't matter.

blue triangle wrote: When they're that low, and the phenomenon so meaningful, it's more reasonable to accept some kind of teleological process is occurring.

Except that you haven't established that it's a phenomenon and again, the likelyhood is irrelevant.

blue triangle wrote:We have

1) The two most important transcendental numbers in mathematics

So what?

blue triangle wrote:2) Two of the most important verses in scripture, both first verses of books, one the first verse in the Bible,

How do you objectively determine what the most important verses are?

blue triangle wrote:3) A combined error of around 1 in a million

You have not actually demonstrated this.

blue triangle wrote:4) Two significant triangular numbers.

Again so what? Also, significant how?

blue triangle wrote:5) The implied name of God in the larger of the two.

Also not given in evidence.

blue triangle wrote:6) The Star of David implied in both (both self intersect, which only 1 in 3 such triangles does).

Again, not given in evidence.

blue triangle wrote:Internal structure is also reflected in the verses, and especially within Genesis 1.1.

Has blue also screamed violet at the high pit?

Thomas Eshuis · **#40** by **Thomas Eshuis** » Mar 30, 2016 5:19 pm

blue triangle wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
blue triangle wrote:None of you have even attempted to explain how this phenomenon could have occurred.

It's not a phenomenon.
Why? Time methinks for you to put your money where your mouth is and not give me a blind assertion. I've shown my evidence. Now I invite you to show me how it is more likely coincidence than a real phenomenon.

Still trying to shift that burden of proof I see. :nono:

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