purplerat wrote:It's integral because that's the way Sony made it. MS had an external/add-on HD-DVD for the 360 but making it optional lead to nobody buying it and it failing miserably. Presumably the same would have happened to the PS3 blu ray had it been optional. The point is that was the way they wanted to make their console and gave consumers the choice to either have it that way (at an exceptionally higher price) or not have the console at all. Now you may feel the Kinect is not as valuable as blu ray (and I'd probably agree) but it's no more or less anti-consumerist than what Sony did in the last generation.

I don't see how it was anti-consumerist given blu-ray disc movies were already starting to appear on our shelves, it seems sensible to have a gaming machine with HDMi support that could play them. I'm not in this case sure why Sony would've, or should've, been obliged to go with separate options rather than settle on one format. And as you said, it probably would've failed miserably. It was their call to make the machine how they wanted, even if they did have vested interests. I don't see anything anti-consumer in that. If people didn't want to fork out (and many didn't) then there was always the XBox. No one was forcing them to.
Now don't get me wrong, XBox aren't obliged either, in my opinion. If they want to stick with a Kinnect that's their prerogative, it's their machine. And like with PS3, many will go for the cheaper option, which in this case is the PS4. I'm not one of the people griping over Microsoft's decision to do it this way, after all, I'm not buying one, but you have to admit it's not easy to make a case as to why they can't just easily have a Kinnect-free version when it takes so little effort to do so.

mraltair wrote:Years ago, Apple started shipping macs with USB ports and no parallel ports. People got annoyed because everything connected with parallel. USB was the next stage in computer connections. Blu-Ray was the next stage in optical discs. Kinect is unnecessary.

In fairness, it wouldn't of cost them much to put the slot in during transition. It's not as costly or impractical as trying to cater for DVD and blu-ray at the same time.

Animavore wrote:
Now don't get me wrong, XBox aren't obliged either, in my opinion. If they want to stick with a Kinnect that's their prerogative, it's their machine. And like with PS3, many will go for the cheaper option, which in this case is the PS4. I'm not one of the people griping over Microsoft's decision to do it this way, after all, I'm not buying one, but you have to admit it's not easy to make a case as to why they can't just easily have a Kinnect-free version when it takes so little effort to do so.

It's not matter of ease. It's a matter of MS seeing the Kinnect/voice & motion control as being an integral part of home entertainment systems going forward. They know the XBox One is going to sell a lot either way and they are willing to take a hit on a few sales in order to get their foot in the door by putting their technology in as many homes as possible. They want to get that critical mass of Kinnects in consumer homes and offering a Kinnect free version would kill any chance of that.

mraltair wrote:Years ago, Apple started shipping macs with USB ports and no parallel ports. People got annoyed because everything connected with parallel. USB was the next stage in computer connections. Blu-Ray was the next stage in optical discs. Kinect is unnecessary.

Blu ray was not set as the new standard of optical discs when the PS3 launched though. Sony put the cart before the horse, taking a calculated risk in doing so, that by putting blu ray in the PS3 it would help it become the new standard. Along the same lines I do think MS believes the Kinnect will become a home entertainment standard of the future. Just because it's not a direct replacement for an existing standard does not mean it can't be a new one. Although you could argue it's a replacement to existing control and communication devices that are standard within most consumers homes.

Animavore wrote:...

And you don't have to pay for the features, including recording and sharing. Only online multiplayer needs a subscription.

I also wanted to go back to this comment. I've been checking on the XBox One DVR functionality and as far as I can tell there is nothing confirmed that all recording functionality will be limited to Live Gold members. What this all seems to be stemming from is a listing on the features of XBox One Live membership that specifies that sharing of recorded content would be limited to Gold members. But that's right in line with everything MS has always done with their Live service so I'm not sure why it's news.

Now if the XBox One has local recording functionality that is locked unless you are a Live Gold member that would be something new.

As for paying for features in general, that's as I said same-old, same-old with MS/Live and it's a model that has been quite successful and satisfactory for their customers. Interestingly it's Sony who is now gravitating more towards MS on this front, so who's learning from who and why

Animavore wrote:

mraltair wrote:Years ago, Apple started shipping macs with USB ports and no parallel ports. People got annoyed because everything connected with parallel. USB was the next stage in computer connections. Blu-Ray was the next stage in optical discs. Kinect is unnecessary.

In fairness, it wouldn't of cost them much to put the slot in during transition. It's not as costly or impractical as trying to cater for DVD and blu-ray at the same time.

Not financially, but Steve Jobs was at the helm so there was no way he would change his mind. He didn't care how many people stopped buying macs, he refused to make a slightly outdated product. That is anti-consumer.

One thing that probably led to the inclusion of a blu-ray player in the PS3 was that the lifespan of the console was way into the future. I think Sony had a similar opinion as Jobs in that they didn't want a product that was outdated in a couple of years. But unlike Jobs I believe this was due to the expected loss in profit.

Kinect, like you said earlier, could very cheaply be removed to give more options. I guarantee they would attract many more customers that currently privacy concerns. But this would be at the expense of pushing a product into the market the way Sony did with blu-ray. Personally, I don't think Kinect is as valuable a product to the world as blu-ray was and Microsoft will fail at pushing it.

purplerat wrote:

mraltair wrote:Years ago, Apple started shipping macs with USB ports and no parallel ports. People got annoyed because everything connected with parallel. USB was the next stage in computer connections. Blu-Ray was the next stage in optical discs. Kinect is unnecessary.

Blu ray was not set as the new standard of optical discs when the PS3 launched though. Sony put the cart before the horse, taking a calculated risk in doing so, that by putting blu ray in the PS3 it would help it become the new standard. Along the same lines I do think MS believes the Kinnect will become a home entertainment standard of the future. Just because it's not a direct replacement for an existing standard does not mean it can't be a new one. Although you could argue it's a replacement to existing control and communication devices that are standard within most consumers homes.

I can't see Kinect having an impact further than Xbone owners, and I think MS feel the same. Though I think it will always be seen as an attachment, MS probably feel it's an attraction and a selling point of the 'Xbone home entertainment all-in-one system' and as a result increase the sale of Xbones. We'll have to see.

mraltair wrote:

purplerat wrote:

mraltair wrote:Years ago, Apple started shipping macs with USB ports and no parallel ports. People got annoyed because everything connected with parallel. USB was the next stage in computer connections. Blu-Ray was the next stage in optical discs. Kinect is unnecessary.

Blu ray was not set as the new standard of optical discs when the PS3 launched though. Sony put the cart before the horse, taking a calculated risk in doing so, that by putting blu ray in the PS3 it would help it become the new standard. Along the same lines I do think MS believes the Kinnect will become a home entertainment standard of the future. Just because it's not a direct replacement for an existing standard does not mean it can't be a new one. Although you could argue it's a replacement to existing control and communication devices that are standard within most consumers homes.

I can't see Kinect having an impact further than Xbone owners, and I think MS feel the same. Though I think it will always be seen as an attachment, MS probably feel it's an attraction and a selling point of the 'Xbone home entertainment all-in-one system' and as a result increase the sale of Xbones. We'll have to see.

I think MS saw the initial success of the Wii where everybody, even non gamers, were buying it and putting it in their living rooms with the biggest selling point being the unique motion control. I'm guessing that where they see the long term failure of the Wii as a household staple is in a lack of software and features that took advantage of the technology, something MS thinks they can capitalize on. I think they really see the Kinnect as being the device, a la Back to the Future 2, where a user can tell their TV what they want to watch or point at something and tell it what to do. Far fetched in my opinion but I don't believe they are including it because they really think that's what gamers want.

I think that is it exactly. The Wii made a shit ton of money and so MS and Sony jumped on it. I have yet to meet any person who die hard loves the Kinect. Most people are apathetic about it, and some people enjoy it but are not obsessed with it. I have yet to buy one and I do not plan to buy one for my 360. Rather one of the things MS had over Nintendo was it's online FPS games which Nintendo's wifi system sucked ass with the Wii (although the WiiU definitely improved this). The Kinect was an accessory and not a widely popular one either among gaming enthusiasts. It was a popular family addition because it allowed family orientated games that the Wii had, but actual gamers who make a lifetime hobby of playing video games such as eSports. When Halo 5 is completely relient on the Kinect and the bugs in the motion sensors are hardly present, then we can talk, but as of now, it is simply an accessory that consumers of the XBox One should have to choose from. As Animavore said, it is not hard to remove it and it can bolster sales when you allow options between costs.

willhud9 wrote: As Animavore said, it is not hard to remove it and it can bolster sales when you allow options between costs.

Sure they could but then there would be significantly fewer homes with Kinnects in them. The One is still going to sell, probably right on par with the PS4, even with the Kinnect included and that means a Kinnect in every single one of those homes. That creates a critical mass which, in MS's opinion, opens up a huge market place for additional features and services. Even on the gaming front it will create a market in which makers of major titles can comfortably develop true AAA titles that utilize the Kinnects features and of course those would be exclusive to XBox. It's a long term gamble but in actuality comes at a relatively small cost in terms of initial sales. I think it's a much less risky gamble than Sony with blu ray in the PS3. Had blu ray not caught on as the standard - and there was a very real possibility it might not have - it would have been devastating to Sony as a whole and likely ended them as a console maker. If Kinnect on XBox one falters MS can just remove it and move on with probably a small blip in terms of sales figures as a worst case scenario.

Hardly. Sony, being the Japanese company that it is, knew the chances of blue-ray catching on quite well and was not a gamble, but a matter of statistic crunching based around the development of the technology in Japan. That being said, the Kinect is not a pro-gaming device. Therefore you annoy pro-gamers by including it creating an alienation of the gamers who make a living off of videogames. When you can shave $100 bucks off of a product by removing the Kinect, and having that accessory for those who loved it to be able to have with it, you get customer service and sale representation. I think it's a weak business move on MS' part. Sure it means more kinects in people's homes, but when the gamers who had sponsored your product move on because the company know longer caters to them but rather to the kinect audience, that is when MS runs into issues.

willhud9 wrote:Hardly. Sony, being the Japanese company that it is, knew the chances of blue-ray catching on quite well and was not a gamble, but a matter of statistic crunching based around the development of the technology in Japan.

What being Japanese has to do with it is beyond me but Sony has lost it's fair share of format wars (a losing record I do believe) and has had some damaging failures in trying to bring ultimately failed formats to the market. And neither blu ray nor the PS3 were massive successes at launch or even shortly there after. Considering the massive market share lead they had with the PS2 it can easily be argued that the PS3 was not so successful a console, that is if you don't consider the success of winning the HD format war that was tied directly into the PS3.
http://www.fastcompany.com/1290466/sonys-long-list-format-failure-betamax-memorystick-micro

willhud9 wrote:
That being said, the Kinect is not a pro-gaming device. Therefore you annoy pro-gamers by including it creating an alienation of the gamers who make a living off of videogames. When you can shave $100 bucks off of a product by removing the Kinect, and having that accessory for those who loved it to be able to have with it, you get customer service and sale representation. I think it's a weak business move on MS' part. Sure it means more kinects in people's homes, but when the gamers who had sponsored your product move on because the company know longer caters to them but rather to the kinect audience, that is when MS runs into issues.

MS is no dummy company either. Maybe you're not convinced because they aren't Japanese. But there is little indication that they will lose massive market shares due to the inclusion of the Kinnect at $100 extra. The PS3 has traditionally been even more expansive than the 360 and still managed to end up with an essentially even market share. A $100 price difference isn't going to make or break console sales one way or another - it traditionally hasn't - and in this case the Kinnect is at least a tangible piece of hardware that even if you don't like it you can see where the extra $ is going. Let's face it, the whole brew-ha over the Kinnect inclusion is more about piling on over MS's PR mishaps, most of which have either led to reversals or have been overplayed. Maybe they'll reverse on the Kinnect too, but I doubt it since they seem to have a lot invested in it. But if that were the only big difference between the two consoles it wouldn't even be being talked about.

So now it is just a less powerful, more expensive PS4. At least they have headed in the right direction and have now, finally got a decent console.

Microsoft XBox (back to square) One

Can you say "lulz"?

Xbox One Will Launch In Just 13 Countries

Microsoft has reduced the number of Xbox One launch markets from 21 countries to just 13.

[...]

"Our priority is ensuring our customers get the best Xbox One experience the first day it is available," the "Xbox Leadership Team" revealed today. "To do that, and in order to meet demand, we have adjusted the number of markets that will receive Xbox One in November to 13 markets, including Australia, Austria, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Spain, United Kingdom, United States and New Zealand."
[...]

Source

It's like they're afraid of money.

Holy Shit that is bad!

"While we wish we could launch Xbox One simultaneously in these markets, there are many factors that determine the timing of specific market launches. This includes work to localize the Xbox One dash, incorporate additional voice and languages, and build partnerships to bring apps and meaningful local content to each country,"

So in other words, "we designed everything in English and only realised too late that there are other languages in the world." It looks like Sony will be releasing to more than 21 countries in 2013.

No Portugal? Brazil but not Argentina? Not a single Middle Eastern country, even Israel?

According to the Gamespot Twitter Battle, The Xbox One had most support from Saudi Arabia and Russia.... Woops.

Well done Xbox.

I think it comes down to getting contracts up with local TV and sports networks. This whole NFL deal (I think it was the NFL. Or was it baseball?) in the US is one of the few things the Xbone still has going for it as a USP, even if it isn't a very enticing one to many gamers, so I'm guessing they're trying to secure similar deals with, say, soccer or cricket leagues around the world.

Hi Maz

Xbone Live to resurrect Blake's 7, the cult UK Sci-fi show.

Microsoft is to fund a remake of cult BBC sci-fi series Blake's 7 for broadcast on its Xbox Live service, according to reports.

The Financial Times said its sources had confirmed the technology giant would fund development, but had not commissioned a full series.

The show's producer refused to comment, describing the story as "rumours".