The_Metatron wrote:I guess I'll have to bring this up with the Amazing Randi then, and hammer out whose idea it was first!

Please! I'd like to give credit where due. I heard it on one of the crop circle TV shows shown here in the US. If I remember correctly it was the first one to show the fake footage of a circle being made by "orbs".

Gawdzilla wrote:

The_Metatron wrote:I guess I'll have to bring this up with the Amazing Randi then, and hammer out whose idea it was first!

Please! I'd like to give credit where due. I heard it on one of the crop circle TV shows shown here in the US. If I remember correctly it was the first one to show the fake footage of a circle being made by "orbs".

I'll be damned if I can find any quotes at all about crop circles attrubuted to James Randi. There was a show on National Geographic called Is it Real? that aired on September 1, 2005, where one of the interviewees (Joe Nickell, Benjamin Radford, or Michael Shermer) is quoted as saying:

"I'd like to see a crop circle three counties wide, or a crop circle in a Christmas tree farm. Now that would impress me."

I can find no show notes or transcripts for that episode, but clearly, this conversation predates my comments by some five years. Independent skeptical smartassery.

The_Metatron wrote:

Gawdzilla wrote:

The_Metatron wrote:I guess I'll have to bring this up with the Amazing Randi then, and hammer out whose idea it was first!

Please! I'd like to give credit where due. I heard it on one of the crop circle TV shows shown here in the US. If I remember correctly it was the first one to show the fake footage of a circle being made by "orbs".

I'll be damned if I can find any quotes at all about crop circles attrubuted to James Randi. There was a show on National Geographic called Is it Real? that aired on September 1, 2005, where one of the interviewees (Joe Nickell, Benjamin Radford, or Michael Shermer) is quoted as saying:

"I'd like to see a crop circle three counties wide, or a crop circle in a Christmas tree farm. Now that would impress me."

I can find no show notes or transcripts for that episode, but clearly, this conversation predates my comments by some five years. Independent skeptical smartassery.

Ah, it was the christmas tree farm quote I was mangling.

Gawdzilla wrote:

The_Metatron wrote:

Gawdzilla wrote:

The_Metatron wrote:I guess I'll have to bring this up with the Amazing Randi then, and hammer out whose idea it was first!

Please! I'd like to give credit where due. I heard it on one of the crop circle TV shows shown here in the US. If I remember correctly it was the first one to show the fake footage of a circle being made by "orbs".

I'll be damned if I can find any quotes at all about crop circles attrubuted to James Randi. There was a show on National Geographic called Is it Real? that aired on September 1, 2005, where one of the interviewees (Joe Nickell, Benjamin Radford, or Michael Shermer) is quoted as saying:

"I'd like to see a crop circle three counties wide, or a crop circle in a Christmas tree farm. Now that would impress me."

I can find no show notes or transcripts for that episode, but clearly, this conversation predates my comments by some five years. Independent skeptical smartassery.

Ah, it was the christmas tree farm quote I was mangling.

Now that this is established, I would like to hear our OP's response to this. Why is it that there is not ONE ludicrously large crop circle that would clearly be beyond the skills of men to create? Something on the scale of several counties, or a plantation of trees?

The_Metatron wrote:Now that this is established, I would like to hear our OP's response to this. Why is it that there is not ONE ludicrously large crop circle that would clearly be beyond the skills of men to create? Something on the scale of several counties, or a plantation of trees?

Or, on a more artistic note:

The_Metatron wrote:

Gawdzilla wrote:

The_Metatron wrote:

Gawdzilla wrote:

The_Metatron wrote:I guess I'll have to bring this up with the Amazing Randi then, and hammer out whose idea it was first!

Please! I'd like to give credit where due. I heard it on one of the crop circle TV shows shown here in the US. If I remember correctly it was the first one to show the fake footage of a circle being made by "orbs".

I'll be damned if I can find any quotes at all about crop circles attrubuted to James Randi. There was a show on National Geographic called Is it Real? that aired on September 1, 2005, where one of the interviewees (Joe Nickell, Benjamin Radford, or Michael Shermer) is quoted as saying:

"I'd like to see a crop circle three counties wide, or a crop circle in a Christmas tree farm. Now that would impress me."

I can find no show notes or transcripts for that episode, but clearly, this conversation predates my comments by some five years. Independent skeptical smartassery.

Ah, it was the christmas tree farm quote I was mangling.

Now that this is established, I would like to hear our OP's response to this. Why is it that there is not ONE ludicrously large crop circle that would clearly be beyond the skills of men to create? Something on the scale of several counties, or a plantation of trees?

That, sir, is a very good question. Why is the radius limited to what you could reasonably achieve with a length of rope ?

If you spend any time in a rural Wiltshire pub you'll soon figure out it's just the locals, students or bored farmers.

NeedAnswers wrote:I find it interesting that those who claim they can make some of the more intricate, beautiful ones, cannot reproduce them under controlled situations. Also, these very large circles are generally done at night, and noticed the next day(?).

If it's not aliens, I'd love to meet the group who can do this! I would certainly pay premium for this to be done in my backyard, or in the fields near my campus, or anywhere nearby really! It's truly a beautiful artform, whether or not it's extraterrestrial doesn't truly mean much to most people since they will brush it away. The aesthetics of it are, if nothing more, astounding.

Gotta be the government somehow.

I hear the goverment (US government that is) has given the aliens the right to trample our crops (and stick stuff up our asses, and eat the anuses of our cattle etc.) in exchange for some exciting technology. This comes from reliable channeling sources so it must be TRUE! zOMG!

Well. I'd be more inclined to believe that if they said of Apple -- iPhone is obviously Arcturan infiltech

Crop Circles are a lot nicer to look at than some of that schlock that passes as art these days.

Oh boy. Oh boy. They're my favorite type of vandalism art. Far better than graffiti.

I have read this whole thread to get some answers on crop circles expecting there to be more objective reply to needanswers query's. There is a lot of information and links presented that I have yet to explore,

The handful of posts here that ridicule mock and insult needanswers is counterproductive and has done nothing to help in my investigation of crop circles. I thought I would come here and get an objective helpful perspective on this subject, but mostly all I have seen is mass ridicule when the proposition that something other than humans created crop circles.

My opinion so far is unchanged. Crop circles are a phenomena that contain the likelihood of being man made with the possibility of something else we have not considered.

I would like to see some other possibilities explored besides aliens and humans. Or are these the only two options the collective intelligence of this lifeboat have to offer?

Well, if you saw the movie 'The Abyss' ... I mean, it could be that some superintelligence is hidden in the ocean and comes out to play. Or maybe birds are jerking us around and are smarter than we give them credit for. Or rabbits or cats and dogs. Could even be the crops themselves. Are you suggesting an unintelligent source? Some sort of accident of the natural world with no thought behind it?

Someone wrote:Well, if you saw the movie 'The Abyss' ... I mean, it could be that some superintelligence is hidden in the ocean and comes out to play. Or maybe birds are jerking us around and are smarter than we give them credit for. Or rabbits or cats and dogs. Could even be the crops themselves. Are you suggesting an unintelligent source? Some sort of accident of the natural world with no thought behind it?

I am surprised this is all we can come up with here. Aliens, dogs, ants, rabbits, playful sea creatures, secret government tests, clever humans with a lot of spare time............

Okay how about the possibility of a non physical consciousness or intelligent energy of some sort ?

shimwah wrote:

Someone wrote:Well, if you saw the movie 'The Abyss' ... I mean, it could be that some superintelligence is hidden in the ocean and comes out to play. Or maybe birds are jerking us around and are smarter than we give them credit for. Or rabbits or cats and dogs. Could even be the crops themselves. Are you suggesting an unintelligent source? Some sort of accident of the natural world with no thought behind it?

I am surprised this is all we can come up with here. Aliens, dogs, ants, rabbits, playful sea creatures, secret government tests, clever humans with a lot of spare time............

Okay how about the possibility of a non physical consciousness or intelligent energy of some sort ?

Well it is either human or not-human. There are many things under the Sun that are not-human and it would be a waste of time and effort trying to list them all here given, with respect to crop-circles, they rapidly diminish in probability.

This is like discussing how many angels you can fit on a pin head: there are two approaches - the first of which is to actually spend a lot of time and effort working out how many angels can actually fit on a pin head and the other is to first demand what the heck an angel is and where do we find them.

So if you want to propose that it is a "non physical consciousness" or "intelligent energy" then the onus is on you to present evidence against materialism (because that is what you are proposing) and evidence for non-corporeal intelligence.

The evidence to date suggests materialism is more probable than the many religious claims and we have yet to identify a non-corporeal intelligence (other than in science fiction) so this suggests that the possibility of "a non physical consciousness or intelligent energy of some sort " is about zero.

This idea of a non-physical actor in the physical world comes from people who spent time in class doing things other than studying. "Some kind of energy" ... sheesh! Well, it could be anything other than what we know it isn't.

shimwah wrote:I have read this whole thread to get some answers on crop circles expecting there to be more objective reply to needanswers query's. There is a lot of information and links presented that I have yet to explore,

The handful of posts here that ridicule mock and insult needanswers is counterproductive and has done nothing to help in my investigation of crop circles. I thought I would come here and get an objective helpful perspective on this subject, but mostly all I have seen is mass ridicule when the proposition that something other than humans created crop circles.

My opinion so far is unchanged. Crop circles are a phenomena that contain the likelihood of being man made with the possibility of something else we have not considered.

I would like to see some other possibilities explored besides aliens and humans. Or are these the only two options the collective intelligence of this lifeboat have to offer?

Look we know for a fact that every type of crop circle can be produced by humans with simple tools In a relatively short period of time. Speculation about them being the result of anything besides pranksters or artists (with a few done by skeptics just as evidence) is like proposing purple magic monkeys are responsible for gravity. Namely extraneous, non falsifiable, silly, and worth criticism.

So that's it then. Humans did it. Anything other than that is simply up there with the fairies. No more discussion needed.

With this direction I do contemplate how any of the great intellects, philosophers, and inventors ever discovered anything considered whooo at the time. I would expect there would be a few Whooo's at the discovery of electricity, or when the first radio wave was heard.

It would also seem people like Leonardo Da Vinci or Pythagoras, had a little more to offer than the intellectual approach to everything.

Anyway Crop circles debunked..... For now.

We are clever little animals are we not?

shimwah wrote:So that's it then. Humans did it. Anything other than that is simply up there with the fairies. No more discussion needed.

Quite.

With this direction I do contemplate how any of the great intellects, philosophers, and inventors ever discovered anything considered whooo at the time. I would expect there would be a few Whooo's at the discovery of electricity, or when the first radio wave was heard.

It would also seem people like Leonardo Da Vinci or Pythagoras, had a little more to offer than the intellectual approach to everything.

Sorry but the people claiming that crop circles are due to aliens or spirits or the devil (Neffy is out on the fringe for just about everything) aren't actually looking to explain anything but instead to mystify a perfectly understandable trend. It really is completely different to compare it to say the germ theory of disease.

But let's not forget (no matter how much I wish I could) that this same tactic is used across the board from homeopathy to the growing earth as an argument for why after being shown to be wrong they deserve a second or third or 300th shake.

Anyway Crop circles debunked..... For now.

We are clever little animals are we not?

As with all of thees comeback with an actual issue, not just an anomaly that has been retrodicted into crop circle cannon, and be my guest to present it. Until then we have evidence crop circles are anthropogenic and none that contradicts this.

Man Lucek, you is up late tonight!!!